Favorite/Least Favorite Features

[esqueue]

The feature I hate the most about my 17 MKZ 3.0 AWD is the transmission. It's so slow to react sometimes. You hit the paddle shifters and it takes more than a full second to change. This is a COMPLETELY worthless feature due to that. 

Another thing that is very silly is how the automatic trunk slams shut. This isn't necessary at all as the trunk have soft close (it mechanically closes it the last 1/2 inch slowly and quietly).

 

[kramf411]

18 minutes ago, esqueue said:

Another thing that is very silly is how the automatic trunk slams shut.

 

Yeah ^^^

[leftoverture]

1 hour ago, esqueue said:

The feature I hate the most about my 17 MKZ 3.0 AWD is the transmission. It's so slow to react sometimes. You hit the paddle shifters and it takes more than a full second to change. This is a COMPLETELY worthless feature due to that. 

Another thing that is very silly is how the automatic trunk slams shut. This isn't necessary at all as the trunk have soft close (it mechanically closes it the last 1/2 inch slowly and quietly).

 

Yes. I've found the same thing with the paddle shifters. They are basically worthless. I never thought about the automatic trunk closing when I started this thread but yes, it does have an annoying thunk when closing that last little bit. Since I have a 2014, I thought maybe some of these issues would have been fixed in later models...but maybe not. In my opinion, Ford (and Lincoln) engineers could learn a lot by studying brands like Toyota, Honda, etc. They could even learn from Hyundai. My daughter's Elantra is leagues more refined than a similar year Focus. 

[esqueue]

1 minute ago, leftoverture said:

Yes. I've found the same thing with the paddle shifters. They are basically worthless. I never thought about the automatic trunk closing when I started this thread but yes, it does have an annoying thunk when closing that last little bit. Since I have a 2014, I thought maybe some of these issues would have been fixed in later models...but maybe not. In my opinion, Ford (and Lincoln) engineers could learn a lot by studying brands like Toyota, Honda, etc. They could even learn from Hyundai. My daughter's Elantra is leagues more refined than a similar year Focus. 

Funny is that Explorer shuts quiet.  It only needs to shut like it does if they didn't have that feature at the end. If I manually shut it, I can barely put it down and it pulls itself close. 

 

[bbf2530]

5 hours ago, 17MKZ3.0TT said:

Mine's the AWD 3.0T

 

Hi 17MKZ. CDW covered some good information above. I would also reiterate...If you are getting that much torque steer in an AWD 3.0T, you should have your Service Department take a look at it next time you are in for service. Or if you are coming close to being out of warranty, do it as soon as possible.

 

Let us know how you make out and good luck.

[bbf2530]

3 hours ago, esqueue said:

The feature I hate the most about my 17 MKZ 3.0 AWD is the transmission. It's so slow to react sometimes. You hit the paddle shifters and it takes more than a full second to change. This is a COMPLETELY worthless feature due to that. 

Another thing that is very silly is how the automatic trunk slams shut. This isn't necessary at all as the trunk have soft close (it mechanically closes it the last 1/2 inch slowly and quietly).

 

 

3 hours ago, kramf411 said:

Yeah ^^^

 

2 hours ago, leftoverture said:

Yes. I've found the same thing with the paddle shifters. They are basically worthless. I never thought about the automatic trunk closing when I started this thread but yes, it does have an annoying thunk when closing that last little bit. Since I have a 2014, I thought maybe some of these issues would have been fixed in later models...but maybe not. In my opinion, Ford (and Lincoln) engineers could learn a lot by studying brands like Toyota, Honda, etc. They could even learn from Hyundai. My daughter's Elantra is leagues more refined than a similar year Focus. 

 

 

Hi gang. This has been mentioned in the past, but it never hurts to repeat it once in a while. Maybe it will help in your cases, maybe not: When using the manual shift paddles, quickly "flick" and release the paddle. Do not press/depress/hold the paddle. Doing so even briefly can/will delay the shift. This information used to be in the Owners Manual instructions for how to use the paddles. I am not sure whether it still is or not.

 

Try it and see if it helps.

 

Let us know how you make out and good luck.

Edited November 16, 2020 by bbf2530

[leftoverture]

7 hours ago, bbf2530 said:

 

 

 

 

Hi gang. This has been mentioned in the past, but it never hurts to repeat it once in a while. Maybe it will help in your cases, maybe not: When using the manual shift paddles, quickly "flick" and release the paddle. Do not press/depress/hold the paddle. Doing so even briefly can/will delay the shift. This information used to be in the Owners Manual instructions for how to use the paddles. I am not sure whether it still is or not.

 

Try it and see if it helps.

 

Let us know how you make out and good luck.

Tried it. Makes no difference. 

[bbf2530]

8 minutes ago, leftoverture said:

Tried it. Makes no difference. 

 

Oh well. Works for some. At least you tried.

[drolds1]

 

17 hours ago, CDW6212R said:

 

That torque steer you have, do you know if that car has the Driver's Package?

 

That one feature has been a sticking point for me as I started to hunt a 3.0 AWD MKZ. The one feature to reduce the torque steer, only came in the Driver's Package, for 2017 and 2018. It was made standard in all 3.0's in 2019 and 20. I was hunting a 2017, but don't want a black interior. The Driver's Package mandates a black interior(includes it), and the cost was $3400. On the black label MKZ's, that Torque Vectoring cost $1400 for their Driver's Package. That didn't affect the interior choice, or the wheels, or the calipers.

 

Those details took me a while and a couple of conversations with a local dealer manager to figure out. Bottom line is, you want the Driver's Package for sure in 2017 and 2018.

I can't see the MKZ's dynamic torque vectoring doing anything to mitigate torque steer.  Torque steer is induced by power going to the front wheels and is often caused by unequal length half-shafts.  The MKZ's torque vectoring only works on the rear wheels to counteract understeer when cornering.   See video.

[CDW6212R]

I recall seeing and hearing that the torque vectoring was part of the system that reduces torque steer. That was about three years ago, early in the 2017 run. So what was being said was evidently wrong and from early reporting. Torque steer is a big deal and anything that can reduce it is a big plus.

[Robert Iggy Cerami]

1 hour ago, CDW6212R said:

I recall seeing and hearing that the torque vectoring was part of the system that reduces torque steer. That was about three years ago, early in the 2017 run. So what was being said was evidently wrong and from early reporting. Torque steer is a big deal and anything that can reduce it is a big plus.

I can tell you from experience that with the AWD its is not as bad as with out .. I had a 15  3.7 FWD and you really needed to hold on that was a wild stallion .. I had a 17 3.0 AWD and currently a 20 3.0 AWD..

there is some torque steering but if you are punching it hard enough to have torque steering happen then AWD will kick in and even things out quickly

[kramf411]

1 hour ago, Robert Iggy Cerami said:

I can tell you from experience that with the AWD its is not as bad as with out .. I had a 15  3.7 FWD and you really needed to hold on that was a wild stallion .. I had a 17 3.0 AWD and currently a 20 3.0 AWD..

there is some torque steering but if you are punching it hard enough to have torque steering happen then AWD will kick in and even things out quickly

Exactly what is happening on my 2017 3.0 AWD. 

The very first time it happened, I have to let go of the gas pedal coz' it scared the sh#t out of me. ?

[bbf2530]

2 hours ago, kramf411 said:

Exactly what is happening on my 2017 3.0 AWD. 

The very first time it happened, I have to let go of the gas pedal coz' it scared the sh#t out of me. ?

 

Hi kramf. If you are getting that much torque steer, I would recommend having your car and its AWD system checked by your Lincoln Dealer.

Edited November 18, 2020 by bbf2530

[kramf411]

7 hours ago, bbf2530 said:

 

Hi kramf. If you are getting that much torque steer, I would recommend having your car and its AWD system checked by your Lincoln Dealer.

It seems to be a whole lot of torque steer at the very first time I experienced it and compounded by the fact that I never had a vehicle that does that - well, I also don't usually "punch the pedal to the metal".

Now that I am more aware of it, seems like it's not that bad. I will mention it on my next service, though.

My question is: Is a little torque steer okay? Or, there should be absolutely no torque steer and any other conditions mild or not are deemed bad?

[bbf2530]

5 hours ago, kramf411 said:

It seems to be a whole lot of torque steer at the very first time I experienced it and compounded by the fact that I never had a vehicle that does that - well, I also don't usually "punch the pedal to the metal".

Now that I am more aware of it, seems like it's not that bad. I will mention it on my next service, though.

My question is: Is a little torque steer okay? Or, there should be absolutely no torque steer and any other conditions mild or not are deemed bad?

 

HI kramf. My opinion: Having driven FWD cars in the past with what would be considered pretty heavy torque steer when accelerating hard (and far less than 400hp), I would say there should be very little to no torque steer when you "punch the pedal to the metal" in your AWD MKZ. Between the AWD system, traction control, ASC and other driver assists, torque steer has been pretty much tamed.

 

Of course, that is assuming we are on a dry road with good surface. However, with 400HP, if we are driving on a slippery, or even mildly slippery surface, a brief loss of traction may be confused with "torque steer". Not saying that's what is happening with you, just trying to cover as many of the variable and contingencies as I can. ?

 

One way to get a general idea how much torque steer is occurring?? Find a deserted road or large empty parking lot (preferably flat, no crown). From a standstill, hands off the wheel, punch the gas (trying not to actually break traction, since that will skew the results). How straight does your car track? A little variance can be normal. Anything heavy/severe may be an issue.

Then perform the same test except while driving at say...25-40 mph...on a wide deserted road (preferably flat, dry with good traction). Hands off the wheel, hit the gas (be ready to correct course...of course). Does the car track relatively true and straight? Again, a little variance is to be expected, especially on a crowned road. Heck, slight corrections will be needed even in a RWD car.

 

EDIT - And just to add: The AWD system in our MKZ's directs at least partial torque to the rear tires from a stop. And according to the rate of acceleration and other factors, can direct up to 100% of torque to the rear wheels. Essentially, the harder we hit the accelerator, the more torque that is directed to the rear.

 

And as you stated, it never hurts to mention your concerns at your next service. And always better to ask to have the Service Writer or a tech take a ride with you, so you can drive and demonstrate what you are concerned about.

 

Let us know how you make out and good luck.

Edited November 18, 2020 by bbf2530

[leftoverture]

Indeed. In a perfect world the AWD system would kick in fast enough to quell any torque steer but with 400hp, the AWD is tasked with a lot to manage with a sudden burst of acceleration so a slight tug on the wheel before the AWD kicks in is probably normal. Large amounts of torque steer in an AWD model is a sure sign the PTU may be malfunctioning. Have the dealer check it out, especially if you're still under warranty.

[drolds1]

1 hour ago, leftoverture said:

Indeed. In a perfect world the AWD system would kick in fast enough to quell any torque steer but with 400hp, the AWD is tasked with a lot to manage with a sudden burst of acceleration so a slight tug on the wheel before the AWD kicks in is probably normal. Large amounts of torque steer in an AWD model is a sure sign the PTU may be malfunctioning. Have the dealer check it out, especially if you're still under warranty.

As bbf2530 mentioned above,  some torque is always directed to the rear wheels with the AWD system in the MKZ. The rear differential is always engaged when accelerating from a stop, no matter how light or brisk.  Therefore, there's no such thing as the AWD "kicking in."  It's always engaged from a dead stop.  If anything,  depending on the surface, up to 100% of the torque can be transmitted to the rear wheels.  This has been explained to me by a certified Ford transmission tech at my dealership after he submitted a complaint of mine to Engineering in Dearborn.  I had a vibration in my 2010 MKZ Sport AWD  that felt like going over rumble strips at exactly 40mph/1500rpm when lightly accelerating from a stop.  Ford determined that at this particular combination of speed and RPM, the rear differential was disengaging at the same time that the torque converter clutch (TCC) was engaging and the car was going into FWD mode. It was explained at that time that the rear differential is engaged whenever accelerating from a dead stop.  Anyone that has an Intelligent AWD display in their left-side menu can observe this in real time.   I still occasionally feel this vibration but to a much lesser degree, probably as a result of a different ATX and some tuning tweaks.  There were other complaints with Fusions and MKZs of that era.  At the time, they said they could probably "tune" out the vibration but the car would have to go through EPA certification again and that wasn't going to happen.

[kramf411]

Hi @bbf2530, thank you for a very detailed information.

I just arrived from an 80+ mile trip (both ways) and I had a couple of opportunities to really punch it - dry and flat highway.

I can definitely say there was a steer- not much but noticeable - but it quickly disappeared (corrected), so I guess, my vehicle is operating properly?

I am intrigued with the Hands Off the Wheel drive test, though. I will certainly do that when I get the chance.

[CDW6212R]

19 hours ago, drolds1 said:

As bbf2530 mentioned above,  some torque is always directed to the rear wheels with the AWD system in the MKZ. The rear differential is always engaged when accelerating from a stop, no matter how light or brisk.  Therefore, there's no such thing as the AWD "kicking in."  It's always engaged from a dead stop.  If anything,  depending on the surface, up to 100% of the torque can be transmitted to the rear wheels.  This has been explained to me by a certified Ford transmission tech at my dealership after he submitted a complaint of mine to Engineering in Dearborn.  I had a vibration in my 2010 MKZ Sport AWD  that felt like going over rumble strips at exactly 40mph/1500rpm when lightly accelerating from a stop.  Ford determined that at this particular combination of speed and RPM, the rear differential was disengaging at the same time that the torque converter clutch (TCC) was engaging and the car was going into FWD mode. It was explained at that time that the rear differential is engaged whenever accelerating from a dead stop.  Anyone that has an Intelligent AWD display in their left-side menu can observe this in real time.   I still occasionally feel this vibration but to a much lesser degree, probably as a result of a different ATX and some tuning tweaks.  There were other complaints with Fusions and MKZs of that era.  At the time, they said they could probably "tune" out the vibration but the car would have to go through EPA certification again and that wasn't going to happen.

 

I'm glad to read that kind of AWD explanation. I'm familiar with the AWD and automatic 4WD of 2nd gen Explorers(95-01), which were the first type Ford made over many other models(before and after).

 

In those, AWD is 100% power split, though literature claims various other figures. Those AWD's have a simple viscous clutch, a sealed internal device with no controls of any type. All the first AWD's do is resist any difference in speed of the two outputs. The VC is driven constantly, and each driveshaft is driven by it. So it's just like a diff, except inside it is made to resist speed differences. Power is split evenly until the VC stops it from changing from that 50/50. With an open front diff, and rears that aren't LS or worn out, in slick conditions one front and one rear tire will spin. Those are easy to get stuck in a flat open muddy field.

 

If the tires change to mismatched diameters, and the AWD resists constantly, which builds heat and eventually destroys the viscous clutch. That's why many many early AWD Fords have bad transfer cases, and/or black fluid, and/or no front driveshaft. People didn't keep the tires matched.

 

In the early A4WD Fords, the front driveshaft is not connected to the rest, it has an electromagnetic clutch inside the transfer case(TC). Those simply send power to that clutch when it senses a difference in speed between the front and back. That's all it does, those are simply an all or nothing 4WD, and selecting 4WD just forces it to engage the electromagnetic clutch constantly.

 

In the newer Fords I gather they are inherently FWD, from what little I've read. I was expecting to discover that they have some kind of electromagnetic clutch that is also controlled based on speed sensors front and rear. I hope it's true that there is some power going to the rear from a stop.

Edited November 19, 2020 by CDW6212R
better details.

[bbf2530]

1 hour ago, CDW6212R said:

 

I'm glad to read that kind of AWD explanation. I'm familiar with the AWD and automatic 4WD of 2nd gen Explorers(95-01), which were the first type Ford made over many other models(before and after).

 

In those, AWD is 100% power split, though literature claims various other figures. Those AWD's have a simple viscous clutch, a sealed internal device with no controls of any type. All the first AWD's do is resist any difference in speed of the two outputs. The VC is driven constantly, and each driveshaft is driven by it. So it's just like a diff, except inside it is made to resist speed differences. Power is split evenly until the VC stops it from changing from that 50/50. With an open front diff, and rears that aren't LS or worn out, in slick conditions one front and one rear tire will spin. Those are easy to get stuck in a flat open muddy field.

 

If the tires change to mismatched diameters, and the AWD resists constantly, which builds heat and eventually destroys the viscous clutch. That's why many many early AWD Fords have bad transfer cases, and/or black fluid, and/or no front driveshaft. People didn't keep the tires matched.

 

In the early A4WD Fords, the front driveshaft is not connected to the rest, it has an electromagnetic clutch inside the transfer case(TC). Those simply send power to that clutch when it senses a difference in speed between the front and back. That's all it does, those are simply an all or nothing 4WD, and selecting 4WD just forces it to engage the electromagnetic clutch constantly.

 

In the newer Fords I gather they are inherently FWD, from what little I've read. I was expecting to discover that they have some kind of electromagnetic clutch that is also controlled based on speed sensors front and rear. I hope it's true that there is some power going to the rear from a stop.

 

HI CDW. It is 100% true that there is some power/torque going to the rear from a stop. And the harder the car is accelerated, the more power/torque goes to the rear...up to 100%.

 

Good luck.

[rubyinla]

I discovered that the Lincoln warranty is reassuring. 

 

Sunday afternoon, middle of the desert, 125 miles southwest of Vegas and the little orange gear warning comes on.  "See owner's manual."  Manual says nothing.  Called Lincoln roadside service and talked to a nice guy in TN who wanted me to pull over and wait for a tow.  NOT, on a Sunday afternoon, in the desert and 125 miles from the nearest dealer.

Kept motoring on till we had a pit stop.  Shut down, put on my OBD2 reader, had zero codes after restarting and the wrench was gone.  Can't imagine the pain if it had happened to some older couple with no automotive skills.

But, the warranty included sending a tow truck 125 miles to get us and bring us to the closed dealer on a Sunday afternoon.

 

Next glitch to figure out is why the warning came on and went off for tail lights.  They all work.

Edited December 8, 2020 by rubyinla

[Robert Iggy Cerami]

1 hour ago, rubyinla said:

I discovered that the Lincoln warranty is reassuring. 

 

Sunday afternoon, middle of the desert, 125 miles southwest of Vegas and the little orange gear warning comes on.  "See owner's manual."  Manual says nothing.  Called Lincoln roadside service and talked to a nice guy in TN who wanted me to pull over and wait for a tow.  NOT, on a Sunday afternoon, in the desert and 125 miles from the nearest dealer.

Kept motoring on till we had a pit stop.  Shut down, put on my OBD2 reader, had zero codes after restarting and the wrench was gone.  Can't imagine the pain if it had happened to some older couple with no automotive skills.

But, the warranty included sending a tow truck 125 miles to get us and bring us to the closed dealer on a Sunday afternoon.

 

Next glitch to figure out is why the warning came on and went off for tail lights.  They all work.

I had the same issue on my 2017 going near  the same area on my way to Southern Utah  on the 15 I was about 80 miles south of Vegas ..I stopped open the hood did not smell anything, everything sounded and felt fine so I kept going it eventually went away after about an hour.. Did not happen on the way back the car had over 47k at the time could have been a glitch in the sensor, I do remember it was that long hill that gets up to 5000 ft elevation pretty quick so don't know if that had anything to do with it 

[rubyinla]

8 minutes ago, Robert Iggy Cerami said:

I had the same issue on my 2017 going near  the same area on my way to Southern Utah  on the 15 I was about 80 miles south of Vegas ..I stopped open the hood did not smell anything, everything sounded and felt fine so I kept going it eventually went away after about an hour.. Did not happen on the way back the car had over 47k at the time could have been a glitch in the sensor, I do remember it was that long hill that gets up to 5000 ft elevation pretty quick so don't know if that had anything to do with it 

I'm sure it was a glitch.  We had just restarted and were about 10 minutes into a new leg after a food stop.  Went away after rebooting the electrical system.  The remainder of the 1500 mile round trip went off just fine.  From SoCal to northern Utah, averaging 75mph on the freeways, the hybrid cranked out a nice 40 mpg for the round trip.

 

My main focus on the post was it was nice to know there actually was someone who would arrange towing if needed.