Mixed blessing

[shtaka]

Had my car in for service at the dealer last week. Afterwards felt different somehow. I checked tire pressure and it said 40psi for all tires. Higher than I would have expected but figured dealer tech knew what he was doing. Road trip on Saturday down 95 to NY with 3 adults and trunk full of luggage.  Used adaptive cruise most of the way. Averaged 29.6 in my 3.0!

Thought maybe higher tire pressure was reason for great MPG, but after a little research I’m wondering if they’re way overinflated to the detriment of the tires.

Car is going back to dealer this week to have door seams repainted and am prepared to give dealer a talking to if they are overinflated.

what do you think?

[bbf2530]

On 4/11/2021 at 4:34 PM, shtaka said:

Had my car in for service at the dealer last week. Afterwards felt different somehow. I checked tire pressure and it said 40psi for all tires. Higher than I would have expected but figured dealer tech knew what he was doing. Road trip on Saturday down 95 to NY with 3 adults and trunk full of luggage.  Used adaptive cruise most of the way. Averaged 29.6 in my 3.0!

Thought maybe higher tire pressure was reason for great MPG, but after a little research I’m wondering if they’re way overinflated to the detriment of the tires.

Car is going back to dealer this week to have door seams repainted and am prepared to give dealer a talking to if they are overinflated.

what do you think?

 

Hi shtaka. Lots of things to unpack here.  First...What cold PSI are your tires supposed to be inflated to, according to the manufacturers placard on the drivers door sill? What cold psi did you have them inflated to before the service?

 

Second...When did you check the tire pressure? Did you properly check it when the tires were cold in the morning, or did you improperly check them right after driving? They need to be checked cold, in the morning, not after driving or after one side of the car has been in direct sunlight etc. Those factors can affect psi by 3-4-5 psi.

 

Third...Are you checking the tires with a quality tire pressure gauge, or are you only using the TPMS readouts? Do not use the TPMS readouts as a tire pressure gauge. It tells us that right in the Owners Manual.

 

For example, the correct psi for a 3.0T AWD with the 19" wheel/tire combination is 38psi. After driving a few miles, the pressure can rise to 43, 44 even 45 psi. So a reading of 40 does not necessarily mean they were overinflated. And it is certainly not something to complain to the Dealer about.

 

The 2.0T models with 18" or 19"  wheels/tires may have a lower recommended tire pressure. I am not sure what it is, so check your door sill placard for the correct recommended cold pressure. Then use a quality tire pressure gauge to check and adjust them, in the morning when the tires are cold, before you have driven and before the sun has been hitting one side of the car for more than 20-30 minutes.

 

For every 10°F rise/fall in ambient air temperature, tire pressure will rise/fall 1 psi. That is why tires need to be checked "cold", in the morning. Especially at this time of year, when night time/daytime temperatures can vary by 20°-30° or more. That 20°-30° equals a 2-3 psi differential.

 

Perhaps your car "felt different" because the tires were not filled correctly before? We can not determine that over the Internet.

 

Let us know how you make out and good luck.

Edited April 14, 2021 by bbf2530
Correct typos.

[jimflutes]

bbf2530 ,  perfect recommendation .

[leftoverture]

BBF makes the right recommendation.  You say it felt different somehow. Can you explain how exactly it felt different?

[drolds1]

As bbf2530 says, the recommended TP for the 3.0 is 38 PSI.  I keep mine at 40 cold.  And yes, starting out at 40 cold, you'll see readings of 42-43 once they get heated up.  I like a firm ride.  I also keep it in 'Sport' all the time.

 

Your tires were nowhere near overinflated and certainly, a "talking to" is unwarranted here unless you want to be remembered by your service department folks for the wrong reasons.  Look at the sidewalls on your tires for what the maximum allowable pressure is. 

[shtaka]

As advised, I rechecked pressure on cold tires and they were, in fact, at 38 PSI, which is a couple of pounds more than they were before the service. I thought the car felt firmer, but I don't know if my ass is sensitive enough to notice a couple of pounds of difference!  However, there was definitely a difference in MPG. For a trip I've taken a couple of times before and consistently gotten between 26-27 MPG, I now got 29-30. I understand that the reading from the car is likely not the actual mileage, but I am comparing it to itself. Even if it's off a bit from actual it's still pretty impressive for the 3.0.

[bbf2530]

8 hours ago, shtaka said:

As advised, I rechecked pressure on cold tires and they were, in fact, at 38 PSI, which is a couple of pounds more than they were before the service. I thought the car felt firmer, but I don't know if my ass is sensitive enough to notice a couple of pounds of difference!  However, there was definitely a difference in MPG. For a trip I've taken a couple of times before and consistently gotten between 26-27 MPG, I now got 29-30. I understand that the reading from the car is likely not the actual mileage, but I am comparing it to itself. Even if it's off a bit from actual it's still pretty impressive for the 3.0.

 

Hi shtaka. You never answered...Did you check the manufacturers placard on your drivers side door sill? What is the recommended cold pressure for your vehicle?

 

As several of us have mentioned, the 3.0T equipped MKZ's usually have a cold pressure recommendation of 38 PSI. So if 38 PSI "is a couple of pounds more than they were before the service" your tires were underinflated before, which was not good. That alone would affect fuel mileage and ride. So keep them at 38 or slightly above from now on.

 

Good luck.

Edited April 13, 2021 by bbf2530

[leftoverture]

5 hours ago, shtaka said:

As advised, I rechecked pressure on cold tires and they were, in fact, at 38 PSI, which is a couple of pounds more than they were before the service. I thought the car felt firmer, but I don't know if my ass is sensitive enough to notice a couple of pounds of difference!  However, there was definitely a difference in MPG. For a trip I've taken a couple of times before and consistently gotten between 26-27 MPG, I now got 29-30. I understand that the reading from the car is likely not the actual mileage, but I am comparing it to itself. Even if it's off a bit from actual it's still pretty impressive for the 3.0.

In fact,  there is a difference with just a couple PSI change, but as you note most people won't feel it.  The higher pressure reduces rolling resistance and very likely could account for the better mileage you observed.  Other factors such as weather,  ethanol blends, etc could also be a factor.  And yes,  that is impressive mileage for the 3.0. My 2.0 doesn't get much,  if any,  better. 

[shtaka]

On 4/13/2021 at 9:23 AM, bbf2530 said:

 

Hi shtaka. You never answered...Did you check the manufacturers placard on your drivers side door sill? What is the recommended cold pressure for your vehicle?

 

As several of us have mentioned, the 3.0T equipped MKZ's usually have a cold pressure recommendation of 38 PSI. So if 38 PSI "is a couple of pounds more than they were before the service" your tires were underinflated before, which was not good. That alone would affect fuel mileage and ride. So keep them at 38 or slightly above from now on.

 

Good luck.

Checked it yes. 

Original tire pressure was the way it came when I first picked it up from dealer when I bought it. Ultimately had other concerns with that service department, so when the car came back from a different dealer service department with the right pressure, I was a little suspicious over who was right. To be honest, I never bothered to check the label until now because it wasn't an issue until I got it back from the new dealer and the car felt different, in a good way. Nice to have better MPG although, for the most part, with my minimal driving, a full tank will last 10 days or more anyway.

[bbf2530]

1 hour ago, shtaka said:

Checked it yes. 

Original tire pressure was the way it came when I first picked it up from dealer when I bought it. Ultimately had other concerns with that service department, so when the car came back from a different dealer service department with the right pressure, I was a little suspicious over who was right. To be honest, I never bothered to check the label until now because it wasn't an issue until I got it back from the new dealer and the car felt different, in a good way. Nice to have better MPG although, for the most part, with my minimal driving, a full tank will last 10 days or more anyway.

 

Hi shtaka. LOL...As asked several times now...what was the pressure listed on the manufacturers placard? And your last reply opens up several other questions.

 

For example, and not to nitpick (because this is important): If you "...never bothered to check the label until now", what tire pressure were you keeping the tires inflated to? Were you ever checking the tires with a tire pressure gauge before now?

You (and all of us) should have checked the placard when you first brought the car home, so that you knew the correct tire pressure to keep your tires inflated to. No one should assume the tires were properly checked by the Dealer when we purchased the car. And even if it was correct when we purchased or had it serviced, tires lose pressure over time. And ambient temperature also affects tire pressures, as stated previously (+/- 1 psi for every +/- 10° F). So tires need to be routinely checked. At least once a month.

 

Also, you never mentioned whether you are using a tire pressure gauge to check tire pressures (the correct way),  or are you only using the TPMS system readouts to check the tires (the incorrect way). As clearly stated in the Owners Manual and in the LincolnWay phone app, the TPMS system is not meant to be used as a tire pressure gauge.

 

Not trying to chastise you, only make sure the information we are providing is getting through properly and being understood.

 

Good luck.

Edited April 14, 2021 by bbf2530

[shtaka]

I was only aware of the previous tire pressure from trying out the option on the dashboard. I mistakenly assumed that the car would come from the dealer with correct pressures set. I guess I can be obsessive about MPG but not PSI!

I must mention that I am in my 70's and have been a car guy since I was old enough to drive so, while I appreciate your responses, I do find your tone to be a bit condescending. 

[17MKZ3.0TT]

Personalities aside, just wanted to add a real-world example from yesterday & today regarding the tire monitor display. Yesterday I changed the snow tire/aftermarket wheel set for the OEM wheel set of non-winter tires. Before putting the warm weather set on I checked & adjusted the pressure from sitting in storage to the 38 sticker PSI for the stock 19" set. It was an exact 38psi cold according to both my mechanical dial gauge and digital gauges. The car displayed 37psi on all four tires, which is not unusual for these cars. Actually, I consider it excellent, because all tires read the same pressure, and that's what I need to know when detecting a tire going down. This morning it was in the low 40psi compared to mid 50°s when the car read 37psi. Accordingly, the car read all four tires at 35psi, cold. Enjoy your fine car, and go by the door sill sticker cold psi in my opinion. don't be surprised to see them showing over 40° on a hot day, especially on the highway, and yes, your MPG should have gone up vs the underinflated tires. 

EDIT and when we finally get into the 70°s, 80°s and more, I'll have to let some out of the tires to get down to 38psi in the mornings. ?

Edited April 15, 2021 by 17MKZ3.0TT

[bbf2530]

30 minutes ago, shtaka said:

I was only aware of the previous tire pressure from trying out the option on the dashboard. I mistakenly assumed that the car would come from the dealer with correct pressures set. I guess I can be obsessive about MPG but not PSI!

I must mention that I am in my 70's and have been a car guy since I was old enough to drive so, while I appreciate your responses, I do find your tone to be a bit condescending. 

 

Hi shtaka. My replies are not meant to be condescending. So my apologies if you felt they were. And for full disclosure, I am not a heck of a lot younger than you.

 

And we can all learn something, no matter how old we are or what our past experiences may be. I am here to help and learn.

 

I am trying to help you with your questions. To do that, we sometimes need to ask questions. But if those questions go unanswered, or the information provided is vague, it makes it difficult to help you. For example, although asked several times, you still have not mentioned whether you check your tires with a tire pressure gauge or only use the TPMS readouts? That is important information for us to know, if you want accurate information.

 

Another example is when you stated this: "Original tire pressure was the way it came when I first picked it up from dealer when I bought it (What was that pressure? You don't tell us). Ultimately had other concerns with that service department, so when the car came back from a different dealer service department with the right pressure (What was that pressure? You don't tell us), I was a little suspicious over who was right. To be honest, I never bothered to check the label until now (Which is why I pointed out you need to check the label when you purchase a car) because it wasn't an issue until I got it back from the new dealer and the car felt different, in a good way. Nice to have better MPG although, for the most part, with my minimal driving, a full tank will last 10 days or more anyway."

 

As you can see, it is confusing when we are working with incomplete or limited information. So for a moment, put yourself in the shoes of the person who is trying to help answer your questions and help you, who does not know what is on your mind unless you state it clearly.

 

Plus, I and others were trying to keep you from going to "give dealer a talking to if they are overinflated". Because as it turns out, you were not actually aware of what the correct pressure should be.

 

Again, I am only trying to help you.

 

So perhaps we both can learn something from this thread?

 

Keep us updated and good luck.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by bbf2530

[shtaka]

Maybe I didn't tell my story clearly enough. First, I will admit I am not in the habit of religiously checking my tire pressure on a monthly (or other) timeframe. I don't check my oil with a dipstick on a regular basis either. While I don't consider the car's measurement of oil life, MPG or PSI to be gospel, I do use them as baselines and monitor for change and take appropriate action if needed. So, if my MPG had dropped by 2mpg I would have been concerned and looked for a cause. It went up so I'm not concerned but still interested in the cause. That said, I am sensitive to the way the car feels and drives so if something feels "different" I will act on that too if need be.

 

When I took possession of the car in October from the dealer, I mistakenly assumed that they had properly inflated the tires before delivery and didn't think too much of it. When I checked the pressure using the readings from the car, I mentally registered that they were in the 35-37 range and didn't think too much more about it. Since the car was new to me, I had no baseline of driving feel to compare it to and it wasn't till I got it back from 2nd dealer that I noticed a difference in feel that started this whole thread in the first place.

 

I've been on enough car forums over the years, Audi, BMW, Saab and now MKZ to know that people have differing opinions even on something as simple as tire pressure. As a previous poster said, he prefers his at 40 cold. So I was looking for insight and opinions like that from the group. I did appreciate the reminder to check the tires cold.

 

But you did confuse me with your persistence about checking the label. Are there more than one possible labels? I see you have a 2018. Why would my label be different from yours? Different tires sizes?

[fusionff]

I'm guessing he said to check the label because you might have 18" wheels, vs his 19" wheels.  There's no perfect pressure, that sticker is only their recommendation  anyway.  I do keep my 19's at 40 psi also.

[bbf2530]

On 4/17/2021 at 8:08 AM, shtaka said:

Maybe I didn't tell my story clearly enough. First, I will admit I am not in the habit of religiously checking my tire pressure on a monthly (or other) timeframe. I don't check my oil with a dipstick on a regular basis either. While I don't consider the car's measurement of oil life, MPG or PSI to be gospel, I do use them as baselines and monitor for change and take appropriate action if needed. So, if my MPG had dropped by 2mpg I would have been concerned and looked for a cause. It went up so I'm not concerned but still interested in the cause. That said, I am sensitive to the way the car feels and drives so if something feels "different" I will act on that too if need be.

 

When I took possession of the car in October from the dealer, I mistakenly assumed that they had properly inflated the tires before delivery and didn't think too much of it. When I checked the pressure using the readings from the car, I mentally registered that they were in the 35-37 range and didn't think too much more about it. Since the car was new to me, I had no baseline of driving feel to compare it to and it wasn't till I got it back from 2nd dealer that I noticed a difference in feel that started this whole thread in the first place.

 

I've been on enough car forums over the years, Audi, BMW, Saab and now MKZ to know that people have differing opinions even on something as simple as tire pressure. As a previous poster said, he prefers his at 40 cold. So I was looking for insight and opinions like that from the group. I did appreciate the reminder to check the tires cold.

 

But you did confuse me with your persistence about checking the label. Are there more than one possible labels? I see you have a 2018. Why would my label be different from yours? Different tires sizes?

 

Hi shtaka. The short answer is: I was "persistent" in having you check the label for the correct recommended tire pressures, because if you had done that in the first place (as everyone should), you would never have been confused, and this entire thread would have been unnecessary. I think we can agree on that. ?

 

We also were  trying to stop you from giving the dealer "a talking to" for "overinflating" your tires, since it turned out they were not overinflated and you were not aware of the proper pressure they should be inflated to. That would have been a bit embarrassing for you if you had given them a talking to.

 

A longer answer: You "mistakenly assumed" a bunch of things, when there was a label right on your door sill that would have avoided all your confusion. So yes, I was "persistent" about having you check the label because it is something everyone should do when they purchase a car. It can avoid confusion.

 

And asking you to read the label on your own car is easier than us having to look up what your manufacturer recommended pressures are, since yes, the tire pressure recommendations can vary from model year to model year, model to model, etc. etc.

For example, you have a 2017. It is much easier to ask you what your correct tire pressures are than for me and others to have to look it up...in case there is a difference, correct?

 

So again, if you stop to think about it with an open mind for just a minute...checking that label would have prevented all of your confusion and avoided all of this...correct?

 

It is not a mortal sin in the grand scheme of things, so hopefully we have all learned something in this thread and can move on from tire pressures.

 

Just a few related notes: As far as "religiously checking" tire pressures, oil etc? You stated you are "car guy" since you started driving, so I don't think I need to explain to you why checking tire pressures, oil and coolant levels etc., needs to be done on some type of regular basis. There are two very good reasons for this.

First... your inclination to assume the Dealer has checked everything has proven to be erroneous,. So you need to check yourself.

Second... Waiting for things like fuel mileage or tire wear to noticeably change or get bad, or for a warning light to come on to tell you something is wrong, is usually not good for the health of your car. By the time that happens, the damage has already begun. That is why many car people call warning lights "idiot lights". They are smarter nowadays than when they got that nickname, but we still need to check things on some sort of regular basis, not depend on warning lights. But that choice is up to you.

As far as using the TPMS system to monitor your tires? Lincoln/Ford explicitly tell us not to use/depend on the TPMS system, and to use a tire pressure gauge to periodically check for correct pressures. We have explained the reasons.

 

Again, all of these things are not mortal sins. And also again...I am not being condescending at all. But you asked, so I needed to explain.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. ??

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by bbf2530

[shtaka]

When I asked the question, I was hoping for a simple response, e.g. Tire pressure on a 2017 3.0 is 38psi. Some people run them slightly higher. Check recommended pressure on label and check cold tire pressure.

 

Brevity is the soul of wit.

[leftoverture]

37 minutes ago, shtaka said:

When I asked the question, I was hoping for a simple response, e.g. Tire pressure on a 2017 3.0 is 38psi. Some people run them slightly higher. Check recommended pressure on label and check cold tire pressure.

 

Brevity is the soul of wit.

Try not to be offended.  BBF answers everyone the same way.  It's just his style,  I guess.  I try to appreciate anyone who takes on the task of moderator and tries to help everyone they can. 

[bbf2530]

2 hours ago, shtaka said:

When I asked the question, I was hoping for a simple response, e.g. Tire pressure on a 2017 3.0 is 38psi. Some people run them slightly higher. Check recommended pressure on label and check cold tire pressure.

 

Brevity is the soul of wit.

 

Hi shtaka. And "Reading is fundamental".  Questions are easy to ask in few words. Answers take longer. Especially when the person asking the questions does not bother to actually read and understand the answers. That person would be you, Mr. Brevity.

 

The point you keep missing is...you could have checked the label on your own car, instead of asking others, then complaining about how they answer. Since you state you are a "car guy since I was old enough to drive", these are thing you should know.

 

So your latest post leads us to the question of...How many times do you need to be told the same information? That recommended pressure information was in my very first reply on April 11th. And you were told several times, by several members, what the recommend tire pressure is and to "Check recommended pressure on label and check cold tire pressure".

 

However, instead of reading, comprehending and moving on, you made excuses about how you are "not in the habit of religiously checking my tire pressure on a monthly (or other) timeframe".

 

Yes, now I am being condescending. The result of your poorly thought out attempt at being intentionally condescending yourself, to someone who has tried to help you from the beginning.

 

Time to move on.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

[drolds1]

3 hours ago, shtaka said:

When I asked the question, I was hoping for a simple response, e.g. Tire pressure on a 2017 3.0 is 38psi. Some people run them slightly higher. Check recommended pressure on label and check cold tire pressure.

 

Brevity is the soul of wit.

If that was all you wanted, all you had to do was look at the label in the door jamb of your car. 

 

Quote

Check recommended pressure on label and check cold tire pressure.

Those instructions could have been found in your owners' guide.

 

Quote

Resourcefulness:  Seeing where you want to go and taking the first step

 

[17MKZ3.0TT]

On 4/11/2021 at 8:57 PM, drolds1 said:

As bbf2530 says, the recommended TP for the 3.0 is 38 PSI.  I keep mine at 40 cold.  And yes, starting out at 40 cold, you'll see readings of 42-43 once they get heated up.  I like a firm ride.  I also keep it in 'Sport' all the time.

 

Your tires were nowhere near overinflated and certainly, a "talking to" is unwarranted here unless you want to be remembered by your service department folks for the wrong reasons.  Look at the sidewalls on your tires for what the maximum allowable pressure is. 

Just curious, is your, "cold" on the cold side or warm side? When I have them at the sticker's 38PSI cold and the overnight/morning temp is low to middle 40°s. They still go into the low/middle 40s PSI on the highway. Car runs great at the 38psi cold and I wouldn't change it, just wondering what the starting temps are for you usually. 

[17MKZ3.0TT]

On 4/17/2021 at 7:08 AM, shtaka said:

Are there more than one possible labels? I see you have a 2018. Why would my label be different from yours? Different tires sizes?

Forgive any possible post mortem equine beating, but the only sticker that matters is the one put on your joor jamb as the car is built. Various tire brands, sizes, vehicle weights due to drivetrain and anything imaginable can affect things, but the sticker is for your car as built and shod, and even lists the tire size in case a different wheel/tire size may be on the vehicle now. I have the same 19" tires on OEM rims as you, except I use 18" aftermarket rims & snow tires for the winter months, so I use 36 PSI (cold) for them due to the larger air volume/taller sidewall.

Edited April 19, 2021 by 17MKZ3.0TT

[drolds1]

11 hours ago, 17MKZ3.0TT said:

Forgive any possible post mortem equine beating, but the only sticker that matters is the one put on your joor jamb as the car is built. Various tire brands, sizes, vehicle weights due to drivetrain and anything imaginable can affect things, but the sticker is for your car as built and shod, and even lists the tire size in case a different wheel/tire size may be on the vehicle now. I have the same 19" tires on OEM rims as you, except I use 18" aftermarket rims & snow tires for the winter months, so I use 36 PSI (cold) for them due to the larger air volume/taller sidewall.

"Post-mortem equine beating"  I like that?.  Exactly.  And in that vein, I think that this thread has reached the point counter-productivity, and it's time to move on.  Hence, it's now closed to further discussion.

Edited April 20, 2021 by drolds1

[drolds1]

11 hours ago, 17MKZ3.0TT said:

Just curious, is your, "cold" on the cold side or warm side? When I have them at the sticker's 38PSI cold and the overnight/morning temp is low to middle 40°s. They still go into the low/middle 40s PSI on the highway. Car runs great at the 38psi cold and I wouldn't change it, just wondering what the starting temps are for you usually. 

I start out at 40 year-round.