TomV Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) The question about how much power do the Lincoln Revel systems have seems to float around, but there are very few published details. Limited specifications can be found directly from Revel and a few online reviewers, such as Lifewire’s review Revel's First Car Audio System in the Lincoln MKX. However, nobody seems to know the actual wattage of the amplifier. Some online references hint upwards of 1,200 watts of power for the Ultima. Whatever the actual number, it definitely needs to be efficient because the Amplifier/DSP module is only powered by two 18AWG power and two 18AWG ground wires both fused at 20A each. I reached out to Harman/Revel for more information, but have yet to get a reply. Apparently, they aren’t familiar with customer response being a key factor in brand loyalty, or so it seems. Lucky for me, I had the chance to examine the electrical components of a Revel 19-speaker 20-channel Amplifier/DSP out of a Lincoln MKX, in which the hardware should be same as the Lincoln MKZ 20-speaker 20-channel Amplifier/DSP. Harman Revel Ultima 20-speaker DSP/Amplifier (HP5T-18T806-BJ/BK/BM) Lifewire’s Brent Butterworth states, “The amplifier is a hybrid design, with traditional Class AB amps for the tweeters and high-efficiency Class D amps for all the other drivers. This is intended to deliver the best mix of efficiency, compactness and sound quality.” It turns out the Class AB amps for the tweeters are actually Class SB-I (Single-ended Bridged Improved). The circuit board contains two STMicroelectronics TDA7802 PowerSO36 quad bridge chip amplifiers. These very clean amps have onboard 24-bit DAC’s so they are probably feed digital signals straight from the DSP. The amps have a dual inputs and rated at 4 x 28W @ 4 ohms, but some souces list the the Peak wattage at 4 x 50W @ 4 ohms. The Lincoln Ultima’s have seven (25mm or 1”) tweeters. One in each door, two on the rear tray and one on the dash. I suspect one amp chip handles the left channel and the other the right. This makes sense for all but the center tweeter. I know each chip supports 2 digital inputs and can fade between each pair of outputs. The underside of the circuit boards contains seven NXP TDF8599ATH dual channel class-D amplifiers. Looking at the manufactures data sheet, at a 35V reference input, each amp could have max output 135W @ 4 ohms. I believe amps run at full power, because Lifewire’s article quotes Ken Deetz as saying "We're running 35-volt [power supply] rails into 4-ohm loads, so it's got plenty of output,". The 7 chips give us 14 Class-D channels to power the remaining 13 speakers (one chip is only one channel). Seven are (80mm or 3.14”) mid-ranges with one in each door, two on the rear deck and one on the dash. Four are (170mm or 6.69”) woofers with one in each door and two 6x9” woofers on rear deck. So the Peak Power would be (7 x 50W Class-AB outputs + 6.5 x 135W Class-D amps) or 350W + 878W = 1,228 Watts. Harman Revel 14-speaker DSP/Amplifier Details (HP5T-18T806-AL/AK) The 14-speaker system uses the same speaker drivers as the Ultima, minus all the rear midrange and rear deck tweeters. It's amplifier is a high-efficiency Class D 12 channel design with onboard DSP. The underside of the circuit boards contains six NXP TDF8599ATH dual channel class-D amplifiers. Looking at the manufactures data sheet, at a 35V reference input, each amp could have max output 135W @ 4 ohms The 14 speakers with only 12 amp channels is achieved with rear door tweeters and woofers powered together. They use a passive crossover within the rear door. All other drivers have there own amp channels and are actively crossed over via the DSP. Five (25mm or 1”) tweeters. One in each door and one on the dash. Three (80mm or 3.14”) mid-ranges with one in each front door and one on the dash. Four (170mm or 6.69”) woofers with one in each doors and two 6x9” woofers on rear deck. Peak Power would be (6 x 135W Class-D amps) or 810 Watts Edited August 11, 2020 by TomV Revised power ratings for Ultima. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) Revised my power ratings above. Here are a couple pictures of the components circled in red. That's some sort of blue heat sink compound on them to help dissipate heat to the case. ST Microelectronics TDA7802PD are the two circled Class SB-I amps. NXP TDF8599ATH are the seven circled Class-D amps Edited January 14, 2020 by TomV added photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Another cool area of interest is they use an Analog Devices ADSP-21489 DSP chip. It's the big square chip in the upper left of first picture above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKZMark Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Looking forward to your analysis of the 14 speaker setup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takeshi Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) Same looking forward for your Analysis. " Class-D is great for midrange and woofers... but not as ideal on tweeters due to the high frequency filtering after the PWM amplification process." Is this why The Treble in Revel is often considered wayyyy too Harsh and needs to be toned down or is it the Combination with the waveguide Tweeter technology? Wait I found out that the tweeters are powered by the CLASS AB AMP Hybrid Design portion from the Lifewire Quote below "The amplifier is a hybrid design, with traditional Class AB amps for the tweeters and high-efficiency Class D amps for all the other drivers. This is intended to deliver the best mix of efficiency, compactness and sound quality. It mounts in the left rear corner of the car, opposite the subwoofer." Edited January 15, 2020 by Takeshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 You’re right, the Ultima system tweeters receive a cleaner amplified signal because of the amplification method not requiring filters on the output signal. If you search Wikipedia for “Class-D Amplifier” you’ll see a diagram where the audio input signal is converted into a Pulse-Width Modulated (PWM) signal. Then an external 2nd order low-pass filter converts the PWM signal into an analog audio signal sent to the speaker. This high frequency filtering is closer to the tweeters operating range, thus could impact sound reproduction. I haven’t listened to an Ultima system yet, but I’m guessing the reported harshness could be due the amount of tweeters or their location, specific DSP equalization tailored by Revel engineers or that Clarifi technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takeshi Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Ahh that makes sense. Thats probably why Ultima in a Continental (9/10 glorious) and in the Aviator 3D Revel (10/10 Almost Perfect so good it made me almost cry) sound better then the 7.5-8/10 MKZ Ultima probably due to the tweeter position and Specific DSP applied not being tailored correctly for Tweeter and Mid Range bottom offset vs Side by Side like in the Continental and Aviator. All of them probably use the same 1200 W Amplifier and tune except for the Aviator with its 28 speakers. Just my two cents after listening to all the Ultima Systems Lincoln has to offer. On 1/15/2020 at 4:16 PM, TomV said: You’re right, the Ultima system tweeters receive a cleaner amplified signal because of the amplification method not requiring filters on the output signal. If you search Wikipedia for “Class-D Amplifier” you’ll see a diagram where the audio input signal is converted into a Pulse-Width Modulated (PWM) signal. Then an external 2nd order low-pass filter converts the PWM signal into an analog audio signal sent to the speaker. This high frequency filtering is closer to the tweeters operating range, thus could impact sound reproduction. I haven’t listened to an Ultima system yet, but I’m guessing the reported harshness could be due the amount of tweeters or their location, specific DSP equalization tailored by Revel engineers or that Clarifi technology. Edited January 17, 2020 by Takeshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fallon Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I suspect that after you inspected the 14 speaker amp you didn't notice anything that could be adjusted? I personally find the 14 speaker Revel system in my MKZ to be lacking in the "clean treble" category. I think it has a little to much bass as well. I wish I could tune it bit. The Mrs isn't find of bass so I turn it all the way down during our road trips, but there is still quite a bit there. I've considered disconnecting the factory woofers, turning the bass all the way down and installing an aftermarket sub with a hidden bass knob. Should provide less bass for her and more for me when I want it, hopefully without sacrificing sound quality by disconnecting the sub and turning the bass all the way down though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) That's odd, I don't believe my 14-speaker setup lacks in the "clean treble" category... except maybe when listening to a low quality audio source, such as: standard AM/FM or Satellite Radio. I'm actually quite impressed with the Class-D tweeter amplification, on HD-Radio, CD, or FLAC sources, despite the theory of different amplification techniques. I would also consider my speakers as being fully broken in, which is usually after about 100 hours of moderate to high use. The speaker surround and spider materials loosen up the more the speaker is used and many claim the sound becomes smoother. I actually noticed this when I compared a brand new MKZ 14-speaker system against mine to see if the rear fade problem was unique to mine. See my other thread about adding a subwoofer for more details on that subject. Also nothing on the circuit board is manually adjustable. Revel engineers custom programmed all the sound parameters within the DSP. Edited January 17, 2020 by TomV spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) More part observations: The amps use Stac64 wiring connectors by Molex: 20-Channel Amp: BLK (PN# 347290120)12-pin power plug. GRY (PN# 347290201) & BLK (PN# 347290200) 20-pin speaker plugs. 14-Channel Amp: BLK (PN# 347290080) 8-pin power plug. GRY (PN# 347290201) & BLK (PN# 347290200) 20-pin speaker plugs. Power 8-pin connector on the 14-speaker Revel. PIN: 1 BK-GN Ground PIN: 2 GN CAN HS3 Hi PIN: 3 WH CAN HS3 Lo PIN: 4 GY-RD 12V+ PIN: 5 BK-GN Ground PIN: 6 BN Ctrl Mod Enable 2 PIN: 8 GY-VT 12V+ Power 12-pin connector on the 20-speaker Revel. PIN: 3 BK-GN Ground PIN: 4 GN CAN HS3 Hi PIN: 5 WH CAN HS3 Lo PIN: 6 GY-RD 12V+ PIN: 9 BK-GN Ground PIN: 10 BN Ctrl Mod Enable 2 PIN: 12 GY-VT 12V+ The blue connector is for the audio signal input, which is USB and appears to be referred to as Ford T Port harness. The 7 Class-D amps output a PWM signal, thus external filter components are needed to convert to an audio signal. On the top of the circuit board are 13 external 2nd order Butterworth filters built with large 10uH murata 5A inductors (PN# 1211EA-1004) and 1uF surface mount capacitors. This proves 1 of the 7 dual channel amps is only using 1 channel. Class-D external Filter components Edited December 17, 2020 by TomV added power connector pin-outs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multitask Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 I will say that I just passed over a lot because it's kinda over my head... That being said... is there a reason why my 2020 MKZ-H with the Revel system, when I fade mostly to the back reduces the sound... even people who I had sit in the back said it's not as loud... I realize that the rear deck is subwoofers, so most sound will not come out of them... but the rear doors are not loud. Spaceman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 It’s all in the way Harman programmed the DSP in the 14-speaker systems. Maybe an overlook, maybe an anomaly, I don’t know for sure. I have found that “audience” mode uses the rear more as it attempts bring the listener closer to the stage. The “On-Stage “ setting has a bit too much rear effects for my taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multitask Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Yea... I think I have it on Audience.... Even my 2018 FFH did that with only the 10 speakers... hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) Finally got pictures of my Revel 12-Channel amplifier. The underside of the circuit boards contains six NXP TDF8599ATH dual channel class-D amplifiers, the same type as the Ultima amp. The manufactures data sheet show running at 35V the amp could have max output 135W @ 4 ohms. So the Peak Power Total would be (6 x 135W Class-D amps) or 810 Watts. It also lacks the big SHARC ADSP-21489 Analog Devices DSP chip on the Ultima. I'm thinking that chip is required for the real-time restoration of compressed signals of the Clari-Fi feature. The smaller of the three chips is a Harman 5412 ADW80027BCPZ. It appears to be a custom built integrated circuit for the Quantumlogic DSP and it on both amplifiers. The other two larger square chips consist of a Analog Devices ADAU1966 WBSTZ 16-channel 24-bit analog to digital converter (only 12-channels needed) and a Renesas 70F3579 micro-controller for automotive body control over the HS CAN. Edited August 11, 2020 by TomV Modified chip inform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) Moved my two questions to the Ultima upgrade thread. Want to keep this one about Amplifier specs. Edited August 13, 2020 by TomV moved post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, TomV said: Couple question for Ultima system owners: 1). Can the Clari-Fi feature be turned on or off for compressed music sources? 2). The wiring diagram shows the tweeters illuminate with the ambient LED lighting, is that so? Hi Tom. If another member does not give you the correct information first, I will try to remember to check tonight. Good luck. Edited August 11, 2020 by bbf2530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) NOTICE: Whatever the amplifiers are capable of, it appears Lincoln has lowered the audio gain in Sync 3.4 so they will no longer reach full potential! The volume scale goes 0 to 30. According to my ears, prior volumes of 15 seem to require around 20 to match the same level now. Equalization may have also changed. My guess is it's either an anomaly or they want to reduce the amount of warranty claims fir blown speakers. Edited September 24, 2020 by TomV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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