Revel 14-speaker system subwoofer upgrade

[Viking]

If anyone is thinking of buying an interface cable for ForScan, you might want to look into this companies product which was specifically made for ForScan, and does not require a switch to support HS-Can and MS-Can

 

https://www.obdlink.com/ex/ 

 

I got mine from Amazon, and it is also available direct from obdlink.com

[bbf2530]

Hi Viking. Thanks for the information. I posted your link over in the "Accessories and Modifications" sub-forum and pinned it.

 

Good luck.

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by bbf2530

[Viking]

?

Edited March 20, 2020 by Viking

[TomV]

I had an interesting thought today!

 

I recently learned the non-Revel ACM has built-in amplification for mids/tweeters and a separate amplifier for the subs.

 

So now I'm thinking if a Revel-ACM is configured to add Aux1 for an External Sub then perhaps we could use ACM pins 4 (+) and 17 (-) and 16 (shield) to send a separate low level signal to an aftermarket subwoofer.

 

There are also some ANC mixing settings in the ACM that seem really interesting... might be able to keep ANC enabled this way.

Edited October 19, 2020 by TomV
fixed technical info.

[TomV]

Just picked up a JL Audio ACS110LG-TW1 PowerWedge+ 10" powered subwoofer with 400W integrated amplifier.

 

Not sure when I'll get around to installing it, but I'll post some pictures here when I do.

 

 

[DeannaC]

Hey Tom, I know I am a little late but I have a sundown 10" in a ported box on a Wolfram 3k amp and everything works great. I do have an extra XS battery in the rear connected through that side panel as well. Unfortunately due to the fact that these have no alternators I'm nervous to go bigger and most audio shops didn't want to touch it either (I wanted 2 12" nightshades on a Salt6 installed??)

Edited July 14, 2021 by DeannaC

[Izzy3906]

19 minutes ago, DeannaC said:

Hey Tom, I know I am a little late but I have a sundown 10" in a ported box on a Wolfram 3k amp and everything works great. I do have an extra XS battery in the rear connected through that side panel as well. Unfortunately due to the fact that these have no alternators I'm nervous to go bigger and most audio shops didn't want to touch it either (I wanted 2 12" nightshades on a Salt6 installed??)

Wow it looks like you want to wake up the neighbors

[TomV]

10 hours ago, DeannaC said:

Hey Tom, I know I am a little late but I have a sundown 10" in a ported box on a Wolfram 3k amp and everything works great. I do have an extra XS battery in the rear connected through that side panel as well. Unfortunately due to the fact that these have no alternators I'm nervous to go bigger and most audio shops didn't want to touch it either (I wanted 2 12" nightshades on a Salt6 installed??)

Nice! I would love a really end system in my Lincoln too. Since my Lincoln is my daily driver, I'm going to keep it simpler. 

 

Now I have looked into sundown and skar 10" subs for my 89 Mustang GT, but I have old school PPI amps and my ProMos50 sub amplifier is only 400W RMS, which I don't think is enough for those subs. I'm still not sure what I'm doing for subs. I'm debating on either 1 beefy 10" sub or 2 more efficient 10's but still researching. Since it's a smaller hatchback, I think either combination will hit pretty hard. I've been sketching amp/sub layouts and as soon as I come up with a design, it should make selecting a sub easier.

[TomV]

This summer has been full of projects for me. Just finished a new tile floor in my house, new paver landscaping outside, etc. I hope to get to the Lincoln subwoofer install soon.

 

First task will be running the 8GA power wire back to the trunk and the JL Audio adjustable gain knob up front. Then I have to find a place to mount the knob.

 

For the actual subwoofer installation, I'm going to see if I can hang it under the rear deck. I'd like it fire upwards at the rear glass. Unfortunately, I'll end up losing the inside panel that covers the 6x9, because I don't want to cut it up if I return it to stock someday. Maybe I'll get another trunk panel from a junkyard and customize that one instead, to give it a factory look. Then I'll try to fabricate some straps (like gas tank straps) to hold the enclosure under the rear deck.

[TomV]

I was able to get the power wire run to the trunk and the JL Audio bass knob installed.

 

I found the perfect location fore the JL Audio amplifier gain knob on the drivers seat. It's easy to reach and operate. The position I found has just enough space behind it for the knob.

 

 

The power wire was a PITA. I removed the battery, which is also a PITA, but couldn't find a suitable location in any existing entry point. There is very little room to get a hand in behind the antilock brake mechanism. So I was forced to drill a hole in the firewall.  I didn't want to, but I couldn't find any other location to route the wire.

 

From the inside, I had to disconnect a large wire connector and move it out of the way. Behind it was a spot about an inch to the right and a bit lower than the hood release cable. I had to drill from the inside using a long bit. I used a plastic grommet to keep the wire from getting cut and sealed around it with black RTV.  Picture shows the connector, but I didn't get a pic behind it.

 

 

I then fabricated a bracket for the fuse holder on the side of the battery tray.

 

 

Next step will be the sub box under the rear deck, between the factory 6x9's.

Edited August 2, 2021 by TomV
arranged photos

[TomV]

Well, I’m having some difficulty finding a location for the subwoofer in the trunk.

 

It’s a bit heavy and large for hanging under the rear deck. hangs down 6” and I’d have to hack up the top panel.

 

i think I’m going to wire it up and test it at multiple locations and angle to find what sounds best. Then I’ll find a way to secure it. 

[TomV]

The JL Audio ACS110LG-TW1 box dimensions just don't fit well in our Lincolns.

 

I wanted to mount it long ways under the rear deck, but the 6x9's are in the way. Perhaps I should ditch the 6x9's, since they suck anyway.

 

 

Mounting the narrow direction doesn't allow the woofer to line up with holes in the rear deck and it would have to hang lower to clear the trunk springs.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by TomV
Edited to adjust picture placement.

[TomV]

I found this "Good vs. Bad" subwoofer placement diagram online.

 

 Unfortunately, none of the "Good" positions will work for me.

 

(a). Requires an infinite baffle to stop back waves in the trunk.

(b). Is a complete waste of trunk space.

(c). Water pours into this location, thanks to Lincolns wonderful designers. 

[TomV]

Well, I've got the sub just sitting in trunk to play with placement. It sounds pretty good, but I think the JL sub was distorting the 6x9's. So I disconnected the 6x9 woofers and now the JL sub sounds much better. Now that I'm not using the 6x9 subs, I'm planning again mount the sub under the rear deck. I will leave the rear mid-range and tweeters on top the rear deck, but seal up the 6x9 holes.

Another bit of information. I have an old Autosound 2000 test cd, with 99 frequency tracks. I could hear and feel down to 20Hz on the rear channel... but had to turn the volume up significantly.  As I moved up the tracks, there was a noticeable jump from 29Hz to 30Hz in loudness. Thus my ear tells me the Revel systems starts to roll-off sharply under 30Hz.  Using the JL Audio adjustable gain knob, I have plenty of low frequency response when I want it.
 

[TomV]

I decided to mount the subwoofer under the rear deck. However, if I were to leave it sitting in the trunk, this seemed to be the best sounding location (6x9's disconnected).

 

[TomV]

I purchased some 48" aluminum L channel, 36" aluminum flat stock and 10-24 threaded rod from Home Depot to make a bracket to hang the subwoofer.

 

Painted it black afterwards and I think it came out pretty good. It will utilize two existing holes in the rear deck, thus I only need to drill two others.

 

 

[TomV]

I ended up cutting out a little section of sheet metal for the sub to fire into the cabin with less obstruction.

 

 

Then I cut out the center section of the underside of the rear deck cover, so the sub can fire through the screen. I left two 1" strips for integrity. 

 

[TomV]

Finally, a little bit of Dynamat and then covered the rear deck with mass loaded vinyl.

 

 

 

 

Since the sub fires directly into the cabin now, it doesn't distort the 6x9s so I wanted to use them. I carefully separated the 6x9s from the upper mid/tweeter assemblies in order to turn the woofers around. This oriented the woofer wire connectors to face outwards and not interfere with the sub box.

 

 

While it still takes up a bit of trunk space, I like it much better and it sounds better too. It doesn't rattle the trunk and doesn't distort the 6x9's. I'd still like to do is obtain another under deck cover and modify it to fit around the box.

 

I also don't notice any active noise cancellation from it. I have a full Forscan license, so I might experiment with the setting, but otherwise I'm finished.

[Izzy3906]

Hello TomV That looks great.

You did a great job enjoy it.

[TomV]

Thank you! It's hard to believe I dreamed up this project back in November 2019 and just now completed.

 

I really like having the adjustable gain control for the sub amp. I can turn it way down and basically listen to the system in stock fashion, then dial it up when I want some extra low end. I crossed it over initially at 80Hz and may play with that setting as time goes on. There is also a 180 degree phase switch, but I'm hesitant to use it since Revel set all the distances in the DSP and it's the same distance as the factory subs.

[jmcgliss]

Nice job. Your hanger solution reminds me of suspending a turntable from the ceiling many years ago (for isolation from creaky wood floors and for leveling).

[djcwardog]

Tom V, your threads got me going in adding a sub to my Revel Ultima system.  I replied to your Revel 14 to Revel Ultima 20 upgrade thread to lay out what I did.  I’m still experimenting with a front-left trunk location for my box and listening as I have it a) firing into back seat or b) across from left to right.  I also used Forscan to disable both ANC and ESE.  I laid all this out here, in Tom V’s other thread:   Tom V’s Revel 14 to Revel Ultima 20 Upgrade Thread

Edited November 18, 2022 by djcwardog

[TomV]

Nice, glad I inspired you. ? A sub tied into the rear subwoofer channels definitely adds the missing low end.

 

I think adding a JL Audio FiX 82 or something to deal with the factory low end roll-off would make it perform even better.

 

However, I'm not wanting to add any more money to my system, so I'll just enjoy what I have now.

[MillenniumRider]

Afternoon everyone,

I am currently messing around with a subwoofer install in a 2019 MKZ with 20sp Revel system. Everything works great for the most part, if I play very heavy bass material I am getting near complete attenuation of the signal coming out of the factory amplifier. If I play other music it will work just fine. It appears as if the factory system is rolling off very sharply especially at low frequency when played at high volume.

 

At first I figured the ANC was trying to attenuate the bass frequencies it wasn't expecting so I disabled the ANC in the DSP, but am still getting the low frequency rolloff. Anything below 11/12 on the volume dial plays perfectly, as soon as I creep above 12 I begin to lose almost all output from the add on sub. This does not occur on every type of source material, and most of what I play works just fine. Factory 6x9 subs have been disconnected and those feeds are going to the aftermarket sub.

 

Tom, I see you somehow have way more knowledge of the DSP in the car and the wiring etc. Is there a better source for the audio feed than grabbing the high level output from the rear deck 6x9's? I had this same setup in a 2018 SHO with the sony system and had absolutely zero issues. I see you mentioned adding an add on DSP for low end roll off, are you experiencing something similar in your setup?

 

Edit: So now I am totally confused, I went outside with a tone generator and swept the system in the car from 20-80 with absolutely no noticeable attenuation present. No cutoff at a certain volume point, within reason, didn't want to damage the factory drivers. But the sub bass frequencies I had it at 16-18 volume and all was perfectly fine. I can play most source material just fine, but if I throw dubstep or any very heavy bass material at the system it hard attenuates the bass above volume 12. I want to believe it is the DSP attenuating the output, but why doesn't it happen with the test tones then?!?!?!?

 

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by MillenniumRider
More Info

[TomV]

Connecting to the factory 6x9 subs works perfectly fine in my car and I don't get any cut out and can run full volume.

 

Now I left my 6x9's hooked up, perhaps your factory amp is going into a protection mode because of no load on the factory subs? Also, depending on the size and where you connected your aftermarket amplifier, perhaps your starving the factory amp of voltage/current.