longislander Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 You're gonna have the car for a few years. What's another couple of days to wait for what you want and will love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longislander Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Sorry about the quadruple(!)post! Edited July 23, 2016 by longislander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalvern Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 You're gonna have the car for a few years. What's another couple of days to wait for what you want and will love? Your claim has its merits. Though I can only fathom Myron and schteve's frustration since their vehicles are outright being a struggle to appropriately trace. Things got more clear to me the moment I saw mine listed on the dealer's website (they do that for all inventory even if the car is pre-sold) At least I got mine finally straighten out, and my salesmen meant to say July 28th, but now expects it since its the next registered car for the lot in line. Got a lease offer I am happy as well already set in place, so all that is left is to test my car and make sure everything checks out and take it home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron D. Brown Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Honestly the only thing you miss out by not going to a Black Label dealer is the cash washes and annual detailing. The annual detailing is something you can plan around if you really want it (but even then, a true detailing shop will always be the best if you want absolute exterior care). In regards to car washes that will pretty much use automated cloth units so if you hate things like swirl marks, that'll be something to pass on as well. The premium maintenance (coverage on even wear and tear items), loaner vehicle service, and pick up/delivery of vehicle service are standard at any Lincoln certified dealership. The Pickup/Delivery was made standard on all 2017+ Lincolns regardless being Black Label or not. Black Label in the end, is about interior and exterior choices for the most part. I understand how you feel, but I beg to differ... Don't forget that Black Label has premium maintenance for FOUR years, all other Lincoln vehicles have it for only TWO. Which basically means all I need to do is keep gas in it and keep my tires properly inflated, so hopefully they last a full four years. LOL. (There's also the dining experience from a list of pre-selected restaurants throughout the country and a complimentary grooming at a Fellow Barber location...although those are one-time perks.) And Lincoln actually has three different qualities/grades of leather. The Premier trim uses what they call "Luxury Soft Touch," which (according to the salesperson I asked) isn't even real leather. Then select and reserve get the Bridge of Weir leather for the seats (and armrests, I believe?) but a vinyl/leather-like material on some other surfaces. Black Label gets that super soft, and more durable Venetian leather. And again, the salesperson told me Black Label trims will get real, top grade leather everywhere, including armrests, door panels, and the dashboard. Lincoln's product videos on YouTube say the wood choices in Black Label trims are tye types of wood used in private jets and yachts...but I'm no expert on wood...all my cars have had "plastic" wood. And don't forget about the nice touch of suede pillars and a suede headliner. And those awesome wheels that are unavailable on other trims. Besides...being in central North Carolina, I'm surrounded by Black Label dealers in three cities, which happen to be the three cities I spend the most time in for both work and leisure. So the anytime carwashes are really a plus for me. So I see it as a lot more than just interior/exterior color schemes. Now a lot of these facts are probably just "bragging points," and not things a guest sitting in your car would immediately notice if you didn't tell them. But personally, I still see lot more value/luxury/exclusivity in the Black Label trims. We'll just have to wait and see. We're going to have some beautiful cars!! Eventually... Edited July 23, 2016 by Myron D. Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalvern Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I understand how you feel, but I beg to differ... Don't forget that Black Label has premium maintenance for FOUR years, all other Lincoln vehicles have it for only TWO. Which basically means all I need to do is keep gas in it and keep my tires properly inflated, so hopefully they last a full four years. LOL. (There's also the dining experience from a list of pre-selected restaurants throughout the country and a complimentary grooming at a Fellow Barber location...although those are one-time perks.) And Lincoln actually has three different qualities/grades of leather. The Premier trim uses what they call "Luxury Soft Touch," which (according to the salesperson I asked) isn't even real leather. Then select and reserve get the Bridge of Weir leather for the seats (and armrests, I believe?) but a vinyl/leather-like material on some other surfaces. Black Label gets that super soft, and more durable Venetian leather. And again, the salesperson told me Black Label trims will get real, top grade leather everywhere, including armrests, door panels, and the dashboard. Lincoln's product videos on YouTube say the wood choices in Black Label trims are tye types of wood used in private jets and yachts...but I'm no expert on wood...all my cars have had "plastic" wood. And don't forget about the nice touch of suede pillars and a suede headliner. And those awesome wheels that are unavailable on other trims. Besides...being in central North Carolina, I'm surrounded by Black Label dealers in three cities, which happen to be the three cities I spend the most time in for both work and leisure. So the anytime carwashes are really a plus for me. So while some people see it as just color schemes. Now a lot of these facts are probably just "bragging points," and not things a guest sitting in your car would immediately notice if you didn't tell them. But personally, I still see lot more value/luxury/exclusivity in the Black Label trims. We'll just have to wait and see. We're going to have some beautiful cars!! Eventually... Oh I'm not dissing Black Label, well the only thing I think it should get is a bit more color choice flexibility for exterior paint jobs at lease. However the exclusive feeling is a natural human desire, and always something we ALL enjoy regardless how we portray it. Some people act a bit more humble, but anyone appreciates having something special; something more rare or less owned than others do. Even if most just happen to see the Black Z and trim emblem on the inside, the interior work alone is a whole different ball game. I should say my point more is even if you can't utilize most of the Black Label services, the interior alone if you like it, is worth it. I mean't the premium maintenance applies to any Lincoln dealership regardless it is Black Label or not, as long YOUR vehicle is an official Black Label vehicle (not fooling anyone with a mere badge swap). So apologize if my context wasn't clear. The only Black Label Dealership requirement is for any of the car cleaning services. Now non-Black Label 2017+ do get remote collection and return services but that is it. Owners still will have to pay for all the wear and tear items without the premium maintenance plan. I left some things out like the Cuisine benefits admittedly since I was focusing a bit more on the vehicle perks itself. But yes, I am going to feel proud driving a Black Label even though its exterior is somewhat subtle from the rest. But I like that. Oh and the wheels are really cool indeed. Just wish they did painted the lower rear portion of the bumper. Though a Vinyl wrap can make it more premium compared to others easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey03 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Hang in there guys. I really think they had a backup of cars. My car was built on June 4th.. It sat in Mexico for over a month. Maybe they are pushing them out in order.. But, that is just a guess. To many cars and not enough haulers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schteve Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) I have checked the dealer inventory (mine wasn't a dealer order conversion, it was an actual special order) my dealer didn't order any driver packages. There are however 3 dealerships with a 20 mile radius and they have each receive 2 driver package cars along with other 3.0 awd cars. Longislander If I was waiting (which I did) for Lincoln tore lease the 3.0. Or for the train to arrive or clear customs or whatever that's one thing. But when my dealer calls and checks and they get the status "on transport" to dealer and I contact concierge and get the same status and the rail yard is 50 miles away AND there have been 40+ MKZ's from that train delivered to my dealership. It goes beyond the wait. Now we are on principle. Lincoln is trying to sell the "experience" almost more so than the car. And if this is how they treat a special order customer (which the dealership also knows that the car will sit on lot for less than 24 hours) then how are they going to respond to warranty claims etc.. It does not bode well. The other thing to this is that my dealer put the highest priority on it that they could (which should tell the logistics crew that no matter what, it should have been on the first hauler to that dealership, since that what the dealer requested via priority) Edited July 23, 2016 by schteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron D. Brown Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Zalvern, You know what's funny? Lincoln could do a much better job of training their dealerships about their products. I taught my salesman and sales manager so many things they had no clue about. First of all, one of them told me the thoroughbred theme wasn't available on the 2017 MKZ, then he dropped his jaw when I pulled out my tablet and showed him a picture. Some of the salesmen didn't even know about the Black 'Z.' We on this forum probably know more than Lincoln dealership staff. Haha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron D. Brown Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Hang in there guys. I really think they had a backup of cars. My car was built on June 4th.. It sat in Mexico for over a month. Maybe they are pushing them out in order.. But, that is just a guess. To many cars and not enough haulers. Not enough haulers, huh? If they would just confirm where the heck my car is, I will gladly get a one-way flight, meet a salesperson there and drive it home. Ugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalvern Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Hang in there guys. I really think they had a backup of cars. My car was built on June 4th.. It sat in Mexico for over a month. Maybe they are pushing them out in order.. But, that is just a guess. To many cars and not enough haulers. It pretty much is. All the 3.0T's my dealer received and even the Black Label 2.0T, were built in June. In fact after looking at multiple window stickers with built dates vs dealership inventory stock #'s, I noticed a pattern. Factory build dates are descending while incoming inventory stock numbers are ascending. My dealership's current truck delivery was full of MKZs, which unfortunately there was not a spot to fit mine on, so it has to go back to fetch it and of course being the weekend time is limited. But it will be next to arrive!!! So what it looks like happened is earlier builds got placed the furthest in Hermosillo's completed vehicle holding lot, which of course means more recent builds are closer up front. When Hermosillo finally could ship the cars out, they just started from the front lot and now shipping them out in descending build date order. Key thing is if you have your windowsticker...look at the bottom for the built date and then compare to dealership inventory stock numbers. That should give you a good idea when your vehicle will actually show up if they're all flowing out at the same time. Edited July 23, 2016 by Zalvern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermans Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Look at Google Earth and you can see the lots, just off site at the plant. The biggest one holds 25,000+ cars and there are several lots. Those dirt lots were completely full when the 2013 Fusion/MKZs came out and there were many issues. Edited July 23, 2016 by hermans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortspark Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 As far as car washes being a perk is concerned depends on how picky you are. I don't let anyone wash my car although sometimes I forget to tell my Mercedes service manager that and they do it as a matter of course. I fancy myself a hobbyist detailer and enjoy doing all that stuff myself. My biggest beef is that something as important as the driver's package comes only with a special, black interior. Why? Why is it that you can't get it with any interior you want? It is because of that restriction alone that I will go with BL if I decide on the MKZ or Continental this fall. BTW, what is the regular interval for maintenance items? My Mercedes calls for oil and filters every 10,000 miles or once a year, whichever comes first. I don't put many miles on it so about a month before the year is up the maintenance minder puts out a note on the dash that service is due in 30 days. So I only worry about it once a year. Is that about what we have for the Lincolns? If so I would not mind taking a little trip to the big city (Dallas) once a year and do some shopping while the car is getting serviced at the BL dealership. But if maintenance is required more frequently I will just use the local dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron D. Brown Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 This sounds like what you ordered... http://ganleylincoln.net/Cleveland/For-Sale/New/Lincoln/MKZ/2017-Black-Label-Black-Car/48625142/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron D. Brown Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 BTW, what is the regular interval for maintenance items? My Mercedes calls for oil and filters every 10,000 miles or once a year, whichever comes first. I don't put many miles on it so about a month before the year is up the maintenance minder puts out a note on the dash that service is due in 30 days. So I only worry about it once a year. Is that about what we have for the Lincolns? If so I would not mind taking a little trip to the big city (Dallas) once a year and do some shopping while the car is getting serviced at the BL dealership. But if maintenance is required more frequently I will just use the local dealer. I saw a PDF version somewhere which listed 10,000-mile intervals for certain things...15,000 for others. But check here: https://owner.lincoln.com/tools/account/maintenance/maintenance-schedule.html You might need to change the year/model. shortspark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalvern Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 This sounds like what you ordered... http://ganleylincoln.net/Cleveland/For-Sale/New/Lincoln/MKZ/2017-Black-Label-Black-Car/48625142/ Looks like I'm busted detective! That is indeed my MKZ. I test drove this one to finally experience the 3.0T performance side of things: http://ganleylincoln.net/Cleveland/For-Sale/New/Lincoln/MKZ/2017-Reserve-300A-Black-Car/48605891/ and checked out their first Black Label Chalet that arrived: http://ganleylincoln.net/Cleveland/For-Sale/New/Lincoln/MKZ/2017-Black-Label-White-Car/48605885/ Now I just wait to finally see Vineyard in reality...then do my own in-depth inspection before signing the lease agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortspark Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I saw a PDF version somewhere which listed 10,000-mile intervals for certain things...15,000 for others. But check here: https://owner.lincoln.com/tools/account/maintenance/maintenance-schedule.html You might need to change the year/model. Yep, that's what I need - thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron D. Brown Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 ...then do my own in-depth inspection before signing the lease agreement. What are you looking for? Dents/dings? Panel gaps? And after all this waiting...would any minor detail be too much to keep you from signing? I guess I'll have to ask myself those same questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalvern Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 What are you looking for? Dents/dings? Panel gaps? And after all this waiting...would any minor detail be too much to keep you from signing? I guess I'll have to ask myself those same questions... Flaws found in my Fusion (As I want to ensure the build quality exceeds over, which it outright should but best to always check previous car grievances), and flaws researched on previous year models. Like I saw the power deck lid complaints so I was opening and closing the 2017 models in regards to that. It did not strike as hard some have complained, though I'll keep watch as It's just things to be mindful of. The only real deal breaker would be to drill holes in the front bumper to mount the front plate. When I go to neighboring states that do not require front plates, I like to remove it and not have awful front holes. Luckily my dealer leaves all their new vehicles un-drilled and only do it if the customer doesn't say anything after purchasing. So I'm not worried about outright rejecting the vehicle. Just making sure nothing looks off. The main reason I'm dropping more money in a MKZ is to enjoy some familiarity of a Fusion (mostly just in controls and architecture due to platform sharing), yet get exactly what I want and with higher expectations. "You get what you pay for" always holds true. I don't care if someone pays less than I do, what matters to me is I still find value in the entertainment the vehicle is bringing me. Anyone should do a quick dent/ding/scratch check though those aren't anything I would deny the car, but would state I need them fixed without charge. Otherwise I'll be expecting a significant lower price for having to take a new car and fix things initially. Panel fittings is one thing to check, another is under body. While they're putting on my Summer tires, I'll want to get a good look around at it as well as some of my under body panels cracked apart on the Fusion, as it never seated correctly from the start. I then connect and run FORScan for any possible DTCs or warnings. On my Fusion, Ford continuously denies to fix the power steering warning which is really annoying, even though its an indicator malfunction that is misleading when power steering is fine. The window trim is popping out, but again, the Lincoln exceeds this already in quality. It might be overly anal to some, but back when I bought my Fusion over 2 years ago, I got burned big time by fully putting everything in the salesman hands and not doing any kind of research. I was like the many clueless car shoppers who simply go to a dealer lot and say "need car, low monthly payment please, etc." I also just wasn't wise in the whole car buying thing either. What hurts more isn't the amount of money I spent, but the fact I really do not like the Fusion anymore at all. Yet don't want to sell it cause it depreciated so hard and I had a major blow in negative equity (long story). But disliking the car itself...that feels worse than knowing you are overpaying on it. But I live and learn and here I am doing everything with acquiring the MKZ right so far. The only hiccup has been the factory's shipping methods but honestly mild over other things to me. Myron D. Brown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schteve Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) well i can tell you they are NOT delivering in order of build date... the MKZ that have shown up at the 3 dealerships have a date on window sticker almost 3 week later than mine. I did not find one with a date older than mine. by the way... they must update the stickers at some point... fact still remains mine is still an older date than the ones already in stock and on the lot see the attached stickers..... so needless to say ... i am on NOT happy camper. It pretty much is. All the 3.0T's my dealer received and even the Black Label 2.0T, were built in June. In fact after looking at multiple window stickers with built dates vs dealership inventory stock #'s, I noticed a pattern. Factory build dates are descending while incoming inventory stock numbers are ascending. My dealership's current truck delivery was full of MKZs, which unfortunately there was not a spot to fit mine on, so it has to go back to fetch it and of course being the weekend time is limited. But it will be next to arrive!!! So what it looks like happened is earlier builds got placed the furthest in Hermosillo's completed vehicle holding lot, which of course means more recent builds are closer up front. When Hermosillo finally could ship the cars out, they just started from the front lot and now shipping them out in descending build date order. Key thing is if you have your windowsticker...look at the bottom for the built date and then compare to dealership inventory stock numbers. That should give you a good idea when your vehicle will actually show up if they're all flowing out at the same time. windowsticker.pdf windowstickernew.pdf windowstickerin stock.pdf Edited July 24, 2016 by schteve Myron D. Brown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drolds1 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Edit Edited July 24, 2016 by drolds1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 All of this sounds SO familiar. I ordered my MKS ecoboost in April of 2009 - just as soon as they were taking orders for the Ecoboosts. It was not delivered until September. In the meantime, dealers all over my area (including the dealership where I ordered the car) was getting MKS Ecoboosts with build dates later than mine! It was annoying for sure. I bugged the hell out of my dealer. In the end though, when MY car was finally delivered, I forgot all about the delays. I suggest being patient. Ordering cars is about the only way to get exactly what you want and be assured that no other customers are going to drive it before you do. However, it does NOT mean that yours will be delivered on a timetable based on build date. Myron D. Brown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schteve Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 And that my friend is the jist of my displeasure with Lincoln right now. They are trying so hard to push the customer experience, yet at the same time they have an immediate sale and basically are telling that customer that "chance" sales from the dealer lot or dealer inventory are much more important. It like a big middle finger to one of the best brand ambassadors a company could have... Yet they treat them like crap and leave horrible taste in their mouths ... Sure the car may be awesome but am I going to recommend ordering a car? No flipping way.... All of this sounds SO familiar. I ordered my MKS ecoboost in April of 2009 - just as soon as they were taking orders for the Ecoboosts. It was not delivered until September. In the meantime, dealers all over my area (including the dealership where I ordered the car) was getting MKS Ecoboosts with build dates later than mine! It was annoying for sure. I bugged the hell out of my dealer. In the end though, when MY car was finally delivered, I forgot all about the delays. I suggest being patient. Ordering cars is about the only way to get exactly what you want and be assured that no other customers are going to drive it before you do. However, it does NOT mean that yours will be delivered on a timetable based on build date. Myron D. Brown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Schteve, believe me, I know what you mean and I agree with you. There should be a better system and after the delays that I encountered 7 years ago, I thought it WOULD have improved by now. Sadly, it appears to be the same. I will be ordering either an MKZ or Continental later this fall. I am purposely waiting for them to have production at full capacity and for the dealer network to have more stock. I will continue to special order cars as I have always done but I will never order a new or revised model just as soon as the order bank opens. That is an exercise in frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalvern Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Schteve, believe me, I know what you mean and I agree with you. There should be a better system and after the delays that I encountered 7 years ago, I thought it WOULD have improved by now. Sadly, it appears to be the same. I will be ordering either an MKZ or Continental later this fall. I am purposely waiting for them to have production at full capacity and for the dealer network to have more stock. I will continue to special order cars as I have always done but I will never order a new or revised model just as soon as the order bank opens. That is an exercise in frustration. This was my first time factory ordering a car, so I personally am taking as a learning experience. The gist I get is like you say: Don't order way before production vehicles are even allowed to leave the factory. Otherwise your vehicle is going to sit further back among the other herd of orders, as more cars are produced but unable to be released for sale. Bruce, if you choose the Continental then looks like you already have the plan to order down. Continentals are to be built at Flat Rock, not all the way down in Hermosillo, so that is one favor of going with the Continental. With all the marketing Lincoln has done for it, I'm sure they're going to ensure that high build quality standard are met. Though MKZs will have been better flushed out so while rail shipping will take longer due to location, it should be smoother hopefully. Both these 2017 MKZs and Continentals are representing Lincoln's comeback into things, which is why I felt now is a good time to buy one. Only changes I expect down the line for the MKZ is perhaps renamed to Zephyr, gains a 9-Speed Transmission, and rear end changed. I'm fine with the current rear end, the only thing Though I'll be well happy with my 2017 as its built more than enough for the street even at stock. If I am going to ever buy a new car, I am always going to special order it just like I will lease it even if I decide to finish buying it off later. Plus special orders get an equal good deal as dealer stock and dealerships know they have a very interested customer who will most likely take the vehicle off their hands Day 1 with no need to provide lot maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schteve Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) well it FINALLY showed up late this evening.... supposed to pick it up tomorrow night. I stopped by (since the dealership is close, it was pretty wedged in so could only get a partial pic... Edited July 26, 2016 by schteve Grey03, brucelinc, Zalvern and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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