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DrakeR

So..how do these lease?

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So how do these cars lease? I know the residual and money factor figures. But how much in your experience do dealers discount these cars?

Test drove one and (still) like it. But the last time I was lease shopping (2016) IMHO the lease deals were not too competitive vs. comparable cars (Acura TLX, Infiniti Q50, Hyundai Genesis, Audi A4).  But the refreshed MKZ had been just starting to hit the lots back then.

Anybody here have any leasing experiences recently?

Thanks.

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So.....no one has leased an MKZ recently?

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On 8/15/2019 at 12:05 AM, DrakeR said:

So how do these cars lease? I know the residual and money factor figures. But how much in your experience do dealers discount these cars?

Test drove one and (still) like it. But the last time I was lease shopping (2016) IMHO the lease deals were not too competitive vs. comparable cars (Acura TLX, Infiniti Q50, Hyundai Genesis, Audi A4).  But the refreshed MKZ had been just starting to hit the lots back then.

Anybody here have any leasing experiences recently?

Thanks.

 

8 hours ago, DrakeR said:

So.....no one has leased an MKZ recently?

 

HI Drake. Just so you do not think your question is being ignored. 🙂

 

I always buy.  The MSRP on the 2018 I factory ordered, equipped the way I wanted, was just over $56,000. Between the $1,500 rebates/incentives at the time, and negotiations between the 4 Lincoln Dealers within a reasonable area, I got the purchase price down to just under $49,000.

And since I was not leasing, I did not have to deal with the smoke and mirrors of "residuals", "money factor figures", "CAP costs", "CAP cost reductions", etc etc. 🙃

 

However, the reason you may not have many replies, from my perspective, is that such a general question becomes difficult to answer. As you know (but it seems some/many people do not), the first thing to do when leasing a vehicle is to negotiate the "vehicle acquisition cost" (or whatever car dealers are calling it to be confusing this week...lol) price down in the same way you would negotiate the purchase price if you were buying the car. All subsequent lease pricing calculations are based off that "vehicle acquisition cost". So price shop between your local Lincoln Dealers and negotiate, negotiate, negotiate.


So as far as competitive pricing, you can get great prices on an MKZ if you are a good negotiator.  So if you know the "residual and money factor figures", you simply need to go in and do your best price negotiations for the vehicle price.

 

Don't know if that answer helps you at all, but it is difficult to answer such a general question. I can tell you that we love our MKZ and you will love the car too, if you decide to get one.

 

Let us know how you make out and good luck.

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bbf2530: First off-thank you for your reply.

 

Yeah, I had basically gathered from reading this board both this year, and in the past, that buying rather than leasing seemed to be more popular with the posters on this board. And a relatively large number of those seem to special order (such as yourself). Which is a good way to go-but I've never been decisive enough to order a car. Not yet, anyway.

 

And I agree my question was a bit generalized, which probably was not one of my better ideas. I guess I figured coming right out and asking if anyone wanted to tell me what they paid seemed a bit ....gauche.

 

But your reply is very helpful, because yes, I am familiar with the money factor and residual figures that should be available to me if I lease an MKZ, but finding good figures for acquisition costs is more difficult. I gather what I can from TrueCar, KBB, etc, as well as looking at the websites of dealers who advertise their discounts up front. But that is an incomplete picture.

 

But having a real person let me know what they paid is very helpful (and in this case, you pretty much confirmed what I expected). From what I have gathered, the discounts on the 2019's (including incentives) are in the ballpark of what you reported for your 2018.

 

I've only got two weeks left on my current Acura lease, and I definitely like the MKZ overall better than my Acura. My only other contender is Infiniti Q50, but I think I like the MKZ a bit better. I will probably hit my local Lincoln dealer first, but they don't have anything on the lot that interests me, so I'll see what they say about bringing a car in-if I like their deal I will take it-if not my next nearest dealer is about 50 miles away-and there are quite a few within 100 miles or so-and I'm willing to travel-I've only bought or leased one out of my last five cars in this burg.

 

Probably will go for a 2.0 T Reserve II AWD. May try to stretch to a V6. I'll see how it goes.

 

Thanks again, bbf2530.

 

 

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I am 28 months into my 36-month lease so what I have to tell you is ancient history but my $47K sticker price 2017 3.0T AWD leased at $450/mo., 10,500 miles per year, with $2K down.

This MKZ is my favorite car ever, and I attribute that to the 400-horsepower twin-turbo V-6 under the hood. It makes every single mile an absolute blast to drive!

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Thanks longislander.

 

Your lease was a couple of years ago, but it is useful info-and again, your lease is in line with what I suspect a 2019 at 47K or so would lease for. That is helpful.

 

And yes I agree-a 400 HP turbo V-6 is tempting. They sticker a bit higher now, though. About 51K minimum, I think, since the configurations are different for 2019. You did well.

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On 8/22/2019 at 8:01 PM, DrakeR said:

bbf2530: First off-thank you for your reply.

 

Yeah, I had basically gathered from reading this board both this year, and in the past, that buying rather than leasing seemed to be more popular with the posters on this board. And a relatively large number of those seem to special order (such as yourself). Which is a good way to go-but I've never been decisive enough to order a car. Not yet, anyway.

 

And I agree my question was a bit generalized, which probably was not one of my better ideas. I guess I figured coming right out and asking if anyone wanted to tell me what they paid seemed a bit ....gauche.

 

But your reply is very helpful, because yes, I am familiar with the money factor and residual figures that should be available to me if I lease an MKZ, but finding good figures for acquisition costs is more difficult. I gather what I can from TrueCar, KBB, etc, as well as looking at the websites of dealers who advertise their discounts up front. But that is an incomplete picture.

 

But having a real person let me know what they paid is very helpful (and in this case, you pretty much confirmed what I expected). From what I have gathered, the discounts on the 2019's (including incentives) are in the ballpark of what you reported for your 2018.

 

I've only got two weeks left on my current Acura lease, and I definitely like the MKZ overall better than my Acura. My only other contender is Infiniti Q50, but I think I like the MKZ a bit better. I will probably hit my local Lincoln dealer first, but they don't have anything on the lot that interests me, so I'll see what they say about bringing a car in-if I like their deal I will take it-if not my next nearest dealer is about 50 miles away-and there are quite a few within 100 miles or so-and I'm willing to travel-I've only bought or leased one out of my last five cars in this burg.

 

Probably will go for a 2.0 T Reserve II AWD. May try to stretch to a V6. I'll see how it goes.

 

Thanks again, bbf2530.

 

 

 

 

Hi Drake.  You are very welcome.  And I don't think asking what others have paid is "gauche" at all.  It's not a state secret. And no one needs to answer if they do not wish. 🙃

 

And just to add one important factor I neglected to mention: The prices I gave above were not including tax.  So my MSRP was just over $56,000 w/o tax, and negotiated price was just under $49,000 w/o tax. That was for a 2018 MKZ Reserve 3.0T AWD, with every option (literally) except for a moonroof.

 

As an FYI for comparison sake: The trim levels were different in 2018. For the 2018 model year, the "Reserve" was the top trim level (other than "Black Label", which was discontinued on the 2019 MKZ). So my 2018 fully loaded Reserve, minus moonroof, would be the equivalent of a fully loaded 2019 "Reserve II" with everything except a moonroof (although you can not get a 2019 "Reserve II" w/o a moonroof, since it is now standard equipment). It's complicated...lol.

 

Let us know how you make out and good luck. 🙂

Edited by bbf2530
Typos.

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On 8/22/2019 at 10:50 PM, bbf2530 said:

 

 

Hi Drake.  You are very welcome.  And I don't think asking what others have paid is "gauche" at all.  It's not a state secret. And no one needs to answer if they do not wish. 🙃

 

And just to add one important factor I neglected to mention: The prices I gave above were not including tax.  So my MSRP was just over $56,000 w/o tax, and negotiated price was just under $49,000 w/o tax. That was for a 2018 MKZ Reserve 3.0T AWD, with every option (literally) except for a moonroof.

 

As an FYI for comparison sake: The trim levels were different in 2018. For the 2018 model year, the "Reserve" was the top trim level (other than "Black Label", which was discontinued on the 2019 MKZ). So my 2018 fully loaded Reserve, minus moonroof, would be the equivalent of a fully loaded 2019 "Reserve II" with everything except a moonroof (although you can not get a 2019 "Reserve II" w/o a moonroof, since it is now standard equipment). It's complicated...lol.

 

Let us know how you make out and good luck.

🙂

Will do. Thank you.

Edited by bbf2530

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OK. So I actually rented a 2018 MKZ last week, just to take an extended test drive and make sure I like this car. For the most part, I liked it a lot.

 

So I just got back from my local dealer. After some preliminaries we got down to business. I explained I was interested in a Reserve II AWD, interior: Cappucino, Exterior: flexible. Nothing on the lot, we'll do a search. Came back with one. MSRP: about $47.6 K-Him:"you interested?" Me: "Yeah". Him :"Want me to run numbers?" Me: "Yes, please".

 

Comes back with $720/month, $1500 down. Me: "More than I was expecting to pay." Him: "Really?!? How much were you expecting?"

 

Thinking this was possibly an opening to negotiation, I come back with: "more like $500/month".

 

Him: (stunned look) "Oh no...not at Lincoln, man". Me: (after a pause to hear if he had anything else to say), "Well, I guess I was aiming for the wrong car then. OK, thanks. Take care". Walked out, fast.

 

I mean, come on......

 

Haven't had a buying experience like that in a long time.

 

Off to a more distant dealer.

Edited by DrakeR

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Ford really doesn't seem to offer very competitive leases.  I suggest checking out http://forum.leasehackr.com/ and you will see the brands that offer the best leasing terms.

Edited by Blackhawk

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55 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Ford really doesn't seem to offer very competitive leases.  I suggest checking out https://leasehackr.com/ and you will see the brands that offer the best leasing terms.

 

OK. There may be something to that, but even by those standards the lease price he quoted to me was beyond ridiculous. At first I had assumed it was a very highball starting point for a round of negotiation. But his silence and response after my counter-offer led me to believe he was serious.

 

Which was sad.

 

Furthermore, I ran his numbers through a lease calculator using the residual and money factor figures for the MKZ I gleaned from Edmunds.

 

Supposedly, I was getting the $2500 lease incentive from Lincoln, with no other discounts off of MSRP (and quite frankly, that sucks).

 

But even using that horrible cap cost, the lease figure I calculated came out $95 a month cheaper than his quote-which means he was also not giving me the Tier I interest rate (despite the fact that I stressed to him that I checked my Experian this morning and it was well above 800.)

 

So either he was ripping me off, or in effect, calling me a liar-either one makes me not want to do business with him.

Edited by DrakeR

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3 hours ago, DrakeR said:

 

OK. There may be something to that, but even by those standards the lease price he quoted to me was beyond ridiculous. At first I had assumed it was a very highball starting point for a round of negotiation. But his silence and response after my counter-offer led me to believe he was serious.

 

Which was sad.

 

Furthermore, I ran his numbers through a lease calculator using the residual and money factor figures for the MKZ I gleaned from Edmunds.

 

Supposedly, I was getting the $2500 lease incentive from Lincoln, with no other discounts off of MSRP (and quite frankly, that sucks).

 

But even using that horrible cap cost, the lease figure I calculated came out $95 a month cheaper than his quote-which means he was also not giving me the Tier I interest rate (despite the fact that I stressed to him that I checked my Experian this morning and it was well above 800.)

 

So either he was ripping me off, or in effect, calling me a liar-either one makes me not want to do business with him.

 

Hi Drake.  He was ripping you off.  Since you came in and did not insist on negotiating the purchase price of the car down (at least from what you described above), he figured he had an uninformed lease customer who he could take advantage of. You can't just throw out leasing numbers.  You need to negotiate the purchase price of the car down as low as possible first. If he immediately agreed to $500 (or any random $ amount) a month without talking exact numbers first, it would likely mean you were still getting ripped off.

 

I am not defending his tactics, but an informed buyer like yourself needs to take as much control of the process as they can.  Once he found a car you were interested in, quoted the MSRP and asked "Interested?", you needed to immediately begin negotiating the price down. that is where the pricing equations begin.  If you don't negotiate the purchase price/CAP cost down first, he assumes you have no idea how leasing works and that you are a sucker. 

 

Of course, that leads to the fact that he is not the kind of salesperson you want to purchase from anyway, but why waste your time letting him think you are uninformed? Take control from the beginning and let them know are an informed buyer and want to deal.

 

Keep us updated and good luck.

Edited by bbf2530

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28 minutes ago, bbf2530 said:

 

Hi Drake.  He was ripping you off.  Since you came in and did not insist on negotiating the purchase price of the car down (at least from what you described above), he figured he had an uninformed lease customer who he could take advantage of. You can't just throw out leasing numbers.  You need to negotiate the purchase price of the car down as low as possible first. If he immediately agreed to $500 (or any random $ amount) a month without talking exact numbers first, it would likely mean you were still getting ripped off.

 

I am not defending his tactics, but an informed buyer like yourself needs to take as much control of the process as they can.  Once he found a car you were interested in, quoted the MSRP and asked "Interested?", you needed to immediately begin negotiating the price down. that is where the pricing equations begin.  If you don't negotiate the purchase price/CAP cost down first, he assumes you have no idea how leasing works and that you are a sucker. 

 

Of course, that leads to the fact that he is not the kind of salesperson you want to purchase from anyway, but why waste your time letting him think you are uninformed? Take control from the beginning and let them know are an informed buyer and want to deal.

 

Keep us updated and good luck.

bbf2530,

 

What you're saying is true and I understand you're not defending him....but at that point I decided his offer was so outrageous, I would just answer his question without getting into the details. Basically...that offer was so high it seemed very unlikely to me to be able to negotiate it down to a more reasonable figure. I mean...my current lease they came in a bit high roughly 100/month more for their first offer-so yeah, I negotiated the cap cost down over a half an hour or so-but from this Lincoln guy's reaction I didn't get a cue that was even an option, or else it was going to be a knock down drag out marathon, and I don't have the patience for that anymore.

 

Also, I doubt he thought I didn't know how leasing works, since I had discussed some details of my current lease with him, and I made sure he knew I understood the importance of credit rating to getting the best interest rate. I also discussed the details of what my "money down" was to cover, so he knew I was acquainted with the concepts such as acquisition fee and cap cost reduction. If he thought I was a dummy, he is probably not very smart, himself.

 

And to be jacking up the interest rate by more than 3 points on top of offering no discount other than the factory lease discount-that just tells me that the guy wasn't serious about doing business with someone who is even half-informed. So I'll let him wait for the next dummy to come along. Though they'll have to be really dumb to go for that.

 

I gave the locals their shot, due to their small inventory they weren't my first choice anyway, but I thought I'd be a nice guy-now it's time to move on. I've only bought or leased one out of my last five cars in this town. Looks like it'll be one out of six, soon.

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On 9/5/2019 at 2:02 PM, DrakeR said:

OK. So I actually rented a 2018 MKZ last week, just to take an extended test drive and make sure I like this car. For the most part, I liked it a lot.

 

So I just got back from my local dealer. After some preliminaries we got down to business. I explained I was interested in a Reserve II AWD, interior: Cappucino, Exterior: flexible. Nothing on the lot, we'll do a search. Came back with one. MSRP: about $47.6 K-Him:"you interested?" Me: "Yeah". Him :"Want me to run numbers?" Me: "Yes, please".

 

Comes back with $720/month, $1500 down. Me: "More than I was expecting to pay." Him: "Really?!? How much were you expecting?"

 

Thinking this was possibly an opening to negotiation, I come back with: "more like $500/month".

 

Him: (stunned look) "Oh no...not at Lincoln, man". Me: (after a pause to hear if he had anything else to say), "Well, I guess I was aiming for the wrong car then. OK, thanks. Take care". Walked out, fast.

 

I mean, come on......

 

Haven't had a buying experience like that in a long time.

 

Off to a more distant dealer.

It's not like MKZs are breaking any sales records, so I'm not understanding this salesperson's approach.  He doesn't sound very professional either.   Those numbers are so far off that my head is spinning.  What part of the country are you in?  I've found that leasing prices vary widely depending on ZIP code.  My son moved to AZ a few years ago and  the lease on his car was ending.  The prices he was quoted in AZ were eye-watering.  A Honda Accord was $650, and that wasn't even top-of-the line.  The same car is  half of that or less here on the east coast.  The lease manager at my dealer told me that his brother in TX is paying $100/month more than I am for the identical car, and close family members get a substantial discount.

 

IDK if you're at all familiar with Ford's discount pricing  plans.  There are various classifications, depending on relationship. It's explained here.    You can check if you are a member of an organization or are employed by a company that offers Ford X-Plan pricing as a perk.  If you're not, you can join  the  Mustang Club of America as an associate member at a cost of $25 for 1 year.  After 60 days as a member, you're entitled to 1 X-plan PIN.   Another organization that offers Ford X-Plan is The Experimental Airplane Association.  You can join for $40/year.  The cost to join these clubs is well worth the benefit.  When you present the X-Plan PIN to a Ford/Lincoln dealer, there's no negotiation.  The price comes directly from Ford and a printout must be shown to you.  Some sharp buyers may be able to negotiate a lower price, but not by much.  Moreover, the amount that the dealer normally adds for documentation is capped.  This can represent a significant savings.  Plus, the hassle of negotiating is eliminated.  That's important to some people (me included).

 

The number you were given is nowhere near reality.  In my own case, my 2017 MKZ had an MSRP of $52G+.  I put no money down.  I've never put any money down on a lease.  However, I did pay the sales tax up front this time.   With X-Plan, my monthly payment is $473.  I don't remember what incentives were available then, but there was a previous Ford  Red Carpet Lease customer rebate.  I don't remember how much that was, but it may have been $1G or less.  I'm thinking that incentives should be better now since they should be looking to clear out 2019s as the 2020MY begins.

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drolds1,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Yeah, my head was spinning also. Three days later, I'm still laughing to myself every time I think about it. I don't understand what rationale that sales guy had, if any. Earlier I said it was the weirdest car buying experience I had in a while-but I've been buying/leasing used and new cars from new car dealerships for more than 30 years, everything from new BMWs to used Plymouths, and upon further review I have never had an experience anywhere near as weird/disturbing as that one. In fact, almost all the experiences I've had were good to excellent, whether i ended up buying or not.

 

I am in Upstate New York. I believe you generally don't get quite as good a deal here as you can get in places like So. Califonia, Dallas-Fort Worth, or New Jersey, where the sales volume per dealership is generally higher, and there is more competition. Still, it's obviously nowhere near as bad as what that guy was trying to pawn.

 

I like your X-Plan idea. Mustang Club is probably out for me as 60 days is too long for me to wait at this point. But I went to that Experimental Airplane Association website you linked to and looked at their X-Plan member benefit page and didn't see any reference to a waiting period. Do you know if that is in fact the case? If there isn't a waiting period (or if it isn't very long), then yeah I'll join up and take advantage of that. It would certainly be 40 bucks well spent.

 

Thank you very much for your help.

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No.  Sorry.  I don't know if there's a waiting period with the EAA.  I guess you'd have to contact them and see how long it takes to get signed up and receive proof of membership.   Here's a listing of all X-Plan partners.  It's pretty extensive Maybe there's something there you might have an association with.  You never know.

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On 9/8/2019 at 12:17 PM, drolds1 said:

 

It's not like MKZs are breaking any sales records, so I'm not understanding this salesperson's approach.  He doesn't sound very professional either.   Those numbers are so far off that my head is spinning.  What part of the country are you in?  I've found that leasing prices vary widely depending on ZIP code.  My son moved to AZ a few years ago and  the lease on his car was ending.  The prices he was quoted in AZ were eye-watering.  A Honda Accord was $650, and that wasn't even top-of-the line.  The same car is  half of that or less here on the east coast.  The lease manager at my dealer told me that his brother in TX is paying $100/month more than I am for the identical car, and close family members get a substantial discount.

 

IDK if you're at all familiar with Ford's discount pricing  plans.  There are various classifications, depending on relationship. It's explained here.    You can check if you are a member of an organization or are employed by a company that offers Ford X-Plan pricing as a perk.  If you're not, you can join  the  Mustang Club of America as an associate member at a cost of $25 for 1 year.  After 60 days as a member, you're entitled to 1 X-plan PIN.   Another organization that offers Ford X-Plan is The Experimental Airplane Association.  You can join for $40/year.  The cost to join these clubs is well worth the benefit.  When you present the X-Plan PIN to a Ford/Lincoln dealer, there's no negotiation.  The price comes directly from Ford and a printout must be shown to you.  Some sharp buyers may be able to negotiate a lower price, but not by much.  Moreover, the amount that the dealer normally adds for documentation is capped.  This can represent a significant savings.  Plus, the hassle of negotiating is eliminated.  That's important to some people (me included).

 

The number you were given is nowhere near reality.  In my own case, my 2017 MKZ had an MSRP of $52G+.  I put no money down.  I've never put any money down on a lease.  However, I did pay the sales tax up front this time.   With X-Plan, my monthly payment is $473.  I don't remember what incentives were available then, but there was a previous Ford  Red Carpet Lease customer rebate.  I don't remember how much that was, but it may have been $1G or less.  I'm thinking that incentives should be better now since they should be looking to clear out 2019s as the 2020MY begins.

 

Interesting - Seems my union (IBEW) is listed but not sure who to contact to get my Partner code to log in

I am a retiree and it seems that I may be eligible

There is a double asterisk after IBEW but do not see what that notation means. 

Edited by R2D2

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42 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

 

Interesting - Seems my union (IBEW) is listed but not sure who to contact to get my Partner code to log in

I am a retiree and it seems that I may be eligible

There is a double asterisk after IBEW but do not see what that notation means. 

Don't you love when there are asterisks with accompanying explanation?😠  I don't know what they mean either, but they appear after MCA, which is used for X-Plan.  I had no problems.

 

One clarification: the 60-day waiting period I mentioned earlier is a Ford requirement.  However, dealers have been known to look the other way on that. They want your business.

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Being a Ford stockholder qualifies you for X-Plan pricing also. There is a holding period requirement.

Edited by longislander

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On 9/10/2019 at 11:28 PM, longislander said:

Being a Ford stockholder qualifies you for X-Plan pricing also. There is a holding period requirement.

It's 6 months.  Also, a minimum of 100 shares.

Edited by drolds1
To add a 2nd qualification for X-Plan

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Took a look at the plan docs. The pricing examples look to me to be a 5% discount off MSRP. I would have expected more but I haven't bought a new car in a while - usually a CPO a few years old. Seems like invoice $ are approaching MSRP!

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On 9/8/2019 at 4:39 PM, DrakeR said:

drolds1,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Yeah, my head was spinning also. Three days later, I'm still laughing to myself every time I think about it. I don't understand what rationale that sales guy had, if any. Earlier I said it was the weirdest car buying experience I had in a while-but I've been buying/leasing used and new cars from new car dealerships for more than 30 years, everything from new BMWs to used Plymouths, and upon further review I have never had an experience anywhere near as weird/disturbing as that one. In fact, almost all the experiences I've had were good to excellent, whether i ended up buying or not.

 

I am in Upstate New York. I believe you generally don't get quite as good a deal here as you can get in places like So. Califonia, Dallas-Fort Worth, or New Jersey, where the sales volume per dealership is generally higher, and there is more competition. Still, it's obviously nowhere near as bad as what that guy was trying to pawn.

 

I like your X-Plan idea. Mustang Club is probably out for me as 60 days is too long for me to wait at this point. But I went to that Experimental Airplane Association website you linked to and looked at their X-Plan member benefit page and didn't see any reference to a waiting period. Do you know if that is in fact the case? If there isn't a waiting period (or if it isn't very long), then yeah I'll join up and take advantage of that. It would certainly be 40 bucks well spent.

 

Thank you very much for your help.

 

Where in upstate NY are you located?

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Chris109: Sorry, I didn't see your reply earlier.

 

I am in the Binghamton area.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, DrakeR said:

Chris109: Sorry, I didn't see your reply earlier.

 

I am in the Binghamton area.

 

 

I was just curious cause the local Fuccillo Lincoln dealership in Schenectady have some really good guys that work there.  Not all of them are there to screw you.

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51 minutes ago, Chris109 said:

I was just curious cause the local Fuccillo Lincoln dealership in Schenectady have some really good guys that work there.  Not all of them are there to screw you.

Thanks.

 

It's not out of the question for me to go to the Albany-Schenectedy area to get a car. I leased a BMW from Keeler about 9 years ago, because they beat my local BMW outlet by a good margin on price. I know the area pretty well, I have some family there, and get up there a lot for work, also.

 

So, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

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