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Livernois Throttle Enhancer


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19 replies to this topic

#1 Zalvern

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 12:31 PM

Looks like Livernois cooked up a new gadget: https://www.livernoi...oduct/LPP690401

A throttle enhancer. To sum it up: Reducing "electronic middle-man steps" required to command the throttle body, being more precise to the owner's pedal command. This will improve throttle reaction time, and give the ability to control sensitivity to the owner. Just like JMS' Pedalmax, but "better of course...as they will say.

Will it be worth the price, being about half their tuner's cost? Regardless, I will give it the chance (Along with doing a clean appearing install). Especially while I already have their tune. I can for certain see it benefiting stock tunes, and a great way to avoid modifying the PCM if that is your thing. But interested if it makes a nice difference even for the tunes, which Livernois claims it will no matter how good they tune the vehicle.

Got one ordered and will provide feedback for those who like to hear from first hand experience. Will go on my 3.0T MKZ of course. But should benefit a big variety of vehicles from 2008 and up. Even for the less supported engines.

Edited by Zalvern, 01 May 2017 - 03:16 AM.






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#2 brucelinc

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 12:57 PM

I look forward to your feedback on this.

#3 drolds1

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 01:51 AM

Is this any different from the JMS PedalMAX?



#4 brucelinc

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 07:31 AM

Is this any different from the JMS PedalMAX?


Apparently not. If you read the marketing description of both, the wording is the same. These things make the throttle more sensitive or "jumpy" but do nothing for WOT performance. I prefer a smoother more progressive throttle mapping.

#5 Zalvern

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 10:40 AM

Functionality of what is does is equal to JMS Pedalmax. But I knew Livernois was "against" such products, especially the Boostmax (piggyback tuner vs actual PCM changing). Doesn't mean its never unsafe, just something they do not recommend because they fully can't support it...until now.

 

Well what interests me is this product means Livernois must like the improvement and functionality of what Pedalmax does, but of course, make it better and support their own firm. Surely Livernois wouldn't want to release a product that brings more harm to their reputation...right?
 

Anyways I got the device. First thing upon opening the box: It is big. Much bigger housing device than Pedalmax. It also has a very OEM construction feel to it. Nice touches for sure but *tinfoil hat on* maybe they just stuffed a JMS chip in there and make it look fancier!

 

Attached File  20170429_112522.jpg   101KB   0 downloads

 

Now my Z is still held in prison...I mean the service shop, since there were some issues the dealer left and need to make up for it (Long story short: Service didn't put the bumper back on correctly after changing the headlight housing, and cracked the housing tab. Getting another new whole headlight. Darn things are by order and are slow and take up to a week)

 

So...I'll test this in my 2014 Titanium Fusion for now. Even have my Livernois tune for it so I can see just how well it amplifies things. Comes with instructions and is simple to follow.


Edited by Zalvern, 29 April 2017 - 10:59 AM.


#6 Zalvern

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 04:21 PM

...and so after some playing around in my 2014 Fusion...

 

It's definitely noticeable as you change the dial setting. On stock, the throttle response increases as you change the setting from stock to max. Going to 93 tune, its even much better. Better to set it half way or about, but this is only on the 2014 2.0T Fusion. I could definitely hear my turbocharger spool up sooner (my Fusion has mods and makes more engine noise) the higher the dial is set. All forms of throttling feel amplified based on the dial's intensity level, but my FWD Fusion wheel spins being on all seasons and what not. Even a good WOT stomp is more effective over stock, not counting wheel spin.

 

Best I can describe it from personal feel. Cannot say if it really differs from Pedalmax as someone would have to do a "side-by-side" comparison.

 

Overall I like what I experienced. I can only imagine how much better it'll be on my MKZ. I'll do a dash cam video when I have it back perhaps just to see how it reacts on a more powerful vehicle.


Edited by Zalvern, 29 April 2017 - 05:23 PM.


#7 drolds1

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 01:18 AM

Interesting.  

 

That is rather large. Where do you mount it?



#8 Zalvern

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 03:44 PM

It's up to the owner to decide how they wish to install everything for the most part.

 

So just to add more insight: I decided to use the device in the rental MKC I have until I get my MKZ back. I tucked the device and wires underneath trim panels to keep anything from getting in the way (pictures below).

 

For turbocharged (and I'm sure supercharged for say mustangs with them) vehicles, the boost will come on sooner the farther it dials clockwise. Roll down the windows and by stepping on the throttle at different dial levels, you'll hear the turbocharger spool at input rates. This seems to help all forms of performance from low end to WOT. I noticed it better in the MKC with the 2.3L AWD Ecoboost compared to my weaker Fusion. Now driving the rental is a bit more fun, so I will keep it in till its time to return.

 

I'm sure people may wonder why a tune cannot do the same thing, but it makes sense to me seeing that the pedal module is a communication device and not directly connected to the PCM. That is, what "Drive by Wire" means roughly. Think of that pedal module like a TPMS: Tuners can improve the throttle response only after the input has been received, but without having full control of the sender side of things, leaves some variables limited. This is why a tune and throttle enhancer helps compliment each other. You have a sender and a receiver: Throttle device improves the sender side, while the tune improves the receiver side.

 

Is it safe? That remains unknown, as the throttle enhancer I would expect boosts voltage which in turn (like in computer overclocking) can increase wear on component life (meaning you would have to replace the pedal module sooner than in stock form). But it is good the intensity can be controlled, so one doesn't need to always run it at max and possibility decrease their MPG overtime. Perhaps the Livernois device, given its size, has more features to its board that say the JMS Pedalmax does not. Livernois tells me its built to be more controllable and safer on components compared to the JMS Pedalmax, so it is a "better and improved version".

 

Will it improve MPG? Probably not because of the "performance fun" it brings, it'll most likely decrease MPG because you are getting into boost sooner. Maybe it'll improve though, with a featherfoot and balanced dial setting, but I wouldn't make any promises or expectations here. The nice part of having the dial to control its intensity from stock to sensitive. You can change it while driving along (though I only change it when my foot is not on the accelerator). So if I am just cruising or city driving with a lot of stops, I'll turn it fully counterclockwise for stock setting.

 

Anyways I posted a few pictures, just how I dummy installed it onto the rental MKC I am using for now. I'll do a more clean and professional install once I have my MKZ back. But this is a nice device for a little more throttle fun, something that most people really want when they get a tune. Nice because you can slap it into nearly any Ford and Lincoln since their pedal modules hardly ever change in hardware design.

 

Last thing for me to test out, and when I get to it, is to go try it out at a drag strip to see if it does any assistance with quarter mile times and 60' foot readings. I believe it should since again, this device does help bring up boost better without hitting the ECU's throttle limiter, a launch technique killjoy.

Attached Files


Edited by Zalvern, 30 April 2017 - 08:43 PM.


#9 brucelinc

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:00 PM

Livernois has made it abundantly clear that this device does not improve WOT acceleration or quarter mile times. All it does is open the throttle butterfly further with less movement of the accelerator pedal. This sort of thing will make the car feel more responsive with less throttle input. No one should think that this device is a substitute for a performance tune.

#10 drolds1

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 07:07 PM

LOL that you installed it on the loaner. :lol:

 

I wonder what effect this would have on the adaptive cruise stop and go functionality.  It might get a little jumpy unless you dialed it back to stock.



#11 Zalvern

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 08:37 PM

Livernois has made it abundantly clear that this device does not improve WOT acceleration or quarter mile times. All it does is open the throttle butterfly further with less movement of the accelerator pedal. This sort of thing will make the car feel more responsive with less throttle input. No one should think that this device is a substitute for a performance tune.

 

Come on bruce! I know you're been in the play field longer than I...and dwell on many other forums. But I feel you are missing the method and way this device does improve performance, just not in your typical power gains or weight/temp reduction sense. I already know what other forums are saying, I lurk them all, but only speak here because to be frank, I grew tired of that sheep mentality displayed on a lot of them. Instead of jumping to negative conclusions its better to ask questions, which is what I did in a phone call to Livernois. Back when I first tried launching the 3.0T MKZ, I was terrible at it, hence my near 14 second quarter mile times. Of course only 3 runs and first time at the track added only 

 

But I was screwing up the throttle inputs. Now I am a lot more connected to the car. If anything I'm excited how this device will make it easier for me to nail that throttle sweet spot my car calls for that perfect launch.

 

I hardly expect any MKZ or 3.0T owners crave more power and performance from a tune, but maybe like some better and sporty throttle control and input. So I'll be this forum's resident performance pusher just to give MKZers a thought and read. Lurkers as well. The reason Livernois said that is because they know, most of these guys are just hoping for easy power gains and output. This device will not do that, but it can help in the driver's skill area if one is aiming to improve that too, for faster quarter mile times.

 

In my experience: It becomes easier to "launch" by being able to increase the throttle/spool sensitivity. Everyone will have different rates they prefer. Something like this may help one find that "sweet spot" for launching from a stop without putting too much foot pressure. The device is therefore a customization aid unit in throttling control (and boosting because they work together). Someone may get better times because they find a easier throttle point that suits them well, and ultimately help achieve a better WOT/Acceleration/Quarter mile/etc. There are three basic vehicle time achievements: Vehicle Performance (A Tune, Weight, Power, Bolt on upgrades, etc.), Driver Input Skill (Brake launching and throttle control, which is where this device goes), then Location and Atmosphere (DA, Temperatures and other uncontrolled variables). I am just summing them up in three categories.

 

Doing a WOT stomp is never effective compared to a skillfully "rolling into WOT" timing when brake launching these modern vehicles, because of all the technology and parameters in place. The ECU puts a big naggy limit if done too long or so. So instead of trying to find that throttle sweet spot guessing where and how far the pedal needs to go, and how long, this device helps you control the sweet spot point instead via setting the floor and ceiling. I find it much easier to locate and hit than in stock form, even with a Livernois tune (my Fusion at least).

 

There is advantage in being able to control that threshold and, can help one's personal quarter mile time improve. For all we know, there may be some throttle launch times inaccessible without adjusting the throttle's sensitivity thanks to this device. That is what I aim to play with once I get my Z back and can hit the track. I like this device gives me more customization to play at for when I go.

 

Clearly Livernois would have not made this if they felt it would completely obsolete their tune. Livernois also wouldn't have made it if its pointless to have because one is tuned. It only makes sense the two work together which is exactly what Livernois will say. But it is wrong to say it can't help improve acceleration/quarter mile times because of what throttle variables it helps controls for the Driver in question. This all being after I called Livernois, talked about the throttle enhancer (I definitely picked their brain on it), and placed my order afterwards feeling it was a good discussion. Now having it in hand, and testing on two different vehicles, I say it meets the expectation of what it intends and a handy tool for reducing the throttle skill floor and ceiling.

 

 

LOL that you installed it on the loaner. :lol:

 

I wonder what effect this would have on the adaptive cruise stop and go functionality.  It might get a little jumpy unless you dialed it back to stock.

 

Hah it makes being stuck in a loaner not so bad at least for throttle fun. Unlike a tune, you can just move it around easily.

 

Shoot, I'm too nice to loaners as I pity them. Many probably beat on them, but I take good care on em. Did a DTC code clear and reset the adaptive learning for a nicer ride tailored to my style of driving. Gotta say the MKC with the 2.3 isn't bad for a cruiser, but that 2.3L would be better choice over a 2.0L anyday.

 

Ah yes, Adaptive Cruise Control. Good question there. I actually doubt it will do a thing but I can go test it later. Very certain the ACC commands engine speed and throttle control on its own (using its own drive by wire line). So this device should only work on manual pedal input, having no effect on Stop n' Go. This MKC has ACC but not the Stop n Go ability, so I may wait till getting back into my 2017 MKZ just to confirm 100%.


Edited by Zalvern, 30 April 2017 - 08:47 PM.


#12 brucelinc

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 09:30 PM

Enjoy it Zalvern. I am beginning to see why you caught some flack in the other forums and chose to no longer participate there. :)

By the way, and I mean this constructively, when we speak with "Livernois," we should be aware of exactly who you are speaking with, their reputation and their motives. Like you, I am a fan and customer. However, like many companies, not all of their team members know what they are talking about and not all will provide the same answer to an identical question.

If you are satisfied with your enhancements, far be it from me to challenge them.

#13 Zalvern

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 01:10 AM

Enjoy it Zalvern. I am beginning to see why you caught some flack in the other forums and chose to no longer participate there. :)

By the way, and I mean this constructively, when we speak with "Livernois," we should be aware of exactly who you are speaking with, their reputation and their motives. Like you, I am a fan and customer. However, like many companies, not all of their team members know what they are talking about and not all will provide the same answer to an identical question.

If you are satisfied with your enhancements, far be it from me to challenge them.

 

Thanks but your constructive concern, but I am well ahead on you in that regard as I didn't just speak to only the first "sales rep" that picked up the phone. Between ones who could tell me exactly how the device helps, rivals JMS pedalmax, and going to tuning side and how it compliments things further. If that is more concerning matters to you, just PM me. But really, I suggestion to call and ask around yourself to make the best decision. They are the ones you wish to challenge, not I for matters like these. I am just one customer who is happy with what he has gotten, and simply shared the feedback being a new thing. I could care less about the drama and other performance opinions from "hard core quarter mile folks" as I feel most have lost touch in the spirit of the matter, how driving is fun and not always about chasing numbers. I see the benefits in controlling my throttle pedal points and that is a boon in overall performance to me. It's a comfort performance type of item, and should be seen like so.

 

We'll just agree to disagree if you do not understand where I am coming from in regards to this throttle enhancer though. For the rest of the guys here, they might just like something that gives them a little more sporty flavor to their MKZs, and not just the 3.0T. Not everyone likes the idea of a tune and will always fear how it "voids the warranty". Even though I just got a PCM update done to my 3.0T MKZ, and my dealership didn't say anything at all.

 

It will make my launching and acceleration experiences more to my liking, and help my personal performance ability as a driver. That is all there is to expect.

 

I am only a fan of BND Automotive by the way. You ask me what oils or fluids are the best, and I'll say ACES IV and QuantumBlue. Livernois is only nice for their electronic works personally speaking (maybe engine work too but won't go that far). Would of considered SCT, but Livernois came first and did just fine on my Fusion. I would never touch Methanol Injection or their Thermostat for example.


Edited by Zalvern, 01 May 2017 - 01:11 AM.


#14 drolds1

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 01:21 AM

 

Ah yes, Adaptive Cruise Control. Good question there. I actually doubt it will do a thing but I can go test it later. Very certain the ACC commands engine speed and throttle control on its own (using its own drive by wire line). So this device should only work on manual pedal input, having no effect on Stop n' Go. This MKC has ACC but not the Stop n Go ability, so I may wait till getting back into my 2017 MKZ just to confirm 100%.

Well, if you are stopped for more than a certain time (3 seconds, IIRC), in order to get moving again, manual input is required from the driver: either pressing the throttle pedal or the 'Resume' button.

 

What do you mean by "using its own drive by wire line."



#15 Zalvern

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 01:52 AM

Well, if you are stopped for more than a certain time (3 seconds, IIRC), in order to get moving again, manual input is required from the driver: either pressing the throttle pedal or the 'Resume' button.

 

What do you mean by "using its own drive by wire line."

 

I mean whatever readings the Adaptive Cruise Control measures to control engine throttle and braking in terms of its own "drive by wire". Not that its actually a separate pedal or anything, just the smart computer doing its efforts to cruise our vehicles till we hit the pedal or brakes. I'll test more things though. I have a good feeling it won't affect ACC/Stop n Go much at all if all you do is tap the throttle to reactive it.

 

I'll put it this way: Even setting this thing at max, I do not find it "jumpy" at all or intrusive. Or feel like I have to watch my pedaling so the car doesn't rocket off more than I expect. Just like when I got the tune, it didn't make the Drive or Sport gears all wild and unrefined, just better to my personal tastes. That is why I do like these devices from Livernois. It may be powered up, but still stays a Lincoln at heart.

 

I am curious to how Auto Hold will react with the throttle at various input rates with this device, has to wait though for now. I can't wait to get my MKZ back.

 

Random painful fact: I've gone through six pairs of these LED headlights. Because four of them have been broken during shipping or installation (by dealership), and two have malfunctioned. They always have to order it since dealerships do not hold the LED headlights in stock and takes a freaking...week each time...ugh. Beware getting parts for these new ones, ever after a year old its still a pain. Ford/Lincoln parts are really slacking in supplies.


Edited by Zalvern, 01 May 2017 - 01:54 AM.


#16 MediumWilly22

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 07:44 PM

I agree that this is a performance enhancing device. Certainly, the amount of time it takes for the driver input to reach the throttle body accounts for something. The Lincoln seems intentionally slow to reconcile this input in factory setup. I enjoy my PedalMax. Any idea what the difference is between the Livernois product and JMS?

#17 pyrrhusmj

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 11:09 PM

Zalvern, how long does it take to install and uninstall?  I like mods, I love mods.  I come from the MINI community and ket my last MINI for cravings and fun with mods.  That does not mean I don't want to do some mods such as a good tune and easily reversed mods such as this pedal enhancer.  I know MINI and other car brands are mod friendly,  I didn't get that feeling from either Lincoln service shop I have spoken to that MODS are acceptable.  I don't wanna spend 6 moths fighting over an engine mod that supposedly destroyed the headlights etc....   Is Livernois the tune I should I go with?  Are they a trusted company?

 

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#18 Zalvern

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 04:05 AM

I agree that this is a performance enhancing device. Certainly, the amount of time it takes for the driver input to reach the throttle body accounts for something. The Lincoln seems intentionally slow to reconcile this input in factory setup. I enjoy my PedalMax. Any idea what the difference is between the Livernois product and JMS?

 

I find it easier to brake launch these vehicles by increasing the pedal sensitivity. That alone is very much appreciated in giving driver ability a boost.

 

Functionality between JMS Pedalmax and Livernois is clearly the same. Of course if you talk to Livernois about it, they'll vouch how they're using better software technology for use on Ecoboost-type vehicles over JMS, they'll always say that though whenever it comes to their own technology and software. I just go with them since I have a tune under them anyways, and I haven't had issues with their electronic vehicle adjustments.

 

Zalvern, how long does it take to install and uninstall?  I like mods, I love mods.  I come from the MINI community and ket my last MINI for cravings and fun with mods.  That does not mean I don't want to do some mods such as a good tune and easily reversed mods such as this pedal enhancer.  I know MINI and other car brands are mod friendly,  I didn't get that feeling from either Lincoln service shop I have spoken to that MODS are acceptable.  I don't wanna spend 6 moths fighting over an engine mod that supposedly destroyed the headlights etc....   Is Livernois the tune I should I go with?  Are they a trusted company?

 

Michael

 

If we're talking about installing and uninstalling both a tune and this throttle enhancer, they're super easy and done in less than 5 minutes. A tune hooks up to the OBII port and flashes the PCM to whatever you have on the device. The throttle device hooks up in between the throttle sensor connector and throttle module (the box on the accelerator pedal). Installing the throttle enhancer suggests to disconnect the battery so Adaptive learning systems are reset. You can do this quicker by using FORScan, and not have to disconnect the battery.

 

I would without a doubt say the tune is always going to be the best bang for the money and something to go for first if wishing to improve performance. Even though the tuning is double the cost of the throttle enhancer, it brings a lot more to the table. I've used their tuner device on my 2014 Fusion, and got my 3.0T MKZ tuned because they were the first out to support it, and neither car has had issues with Livernois' tunes, so I consider them a solid choice. The throttle device is for those who want to customize their throttle sensitivity beyond the tune, or is too worried a tune will bring warranty issues so the customer wants an "untrackable modification". Get the tune first if you really want a performance upgrade to the vehicle.



#19 pyrrhusmj

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 03:48 PM

I find it easier to brake launch these vehicles by increasing the pedal sensitivity. That alone is very much appreciated in giving driver ability a boost.

 

Functionality between JMS Pedalmax and Livernois is clearly the same. Of course if you talk to Livernois about it, they'll vouch how they're using better software technology for use on Ecoboost-type vehicles over JMS, they'll always say that though whenever it comes to their own technology and software. I just go with them since I have a tune under them anyways, and I haven't had issues with their electronic vehicle adjustments.

 

 

If we're talking about installing and uninstalling both a tune and this throttle enhancer, they're super easy and done in less than 5 minutes. A tune hooks up to the OBII port and flashes the PCM to whatever you have on the device. The throttle device hooks up in between the throttle sensor connector and throttle module (the box on the accelerator pedal). Installing the throttle enhancer suggests to disconnect the battery so Adaptive learning systems are reset. You can do this quicker by using FORScan, and not have to disconnect the battery.

 

I would without a doubt say the tune is always going to be the best bang for the money and something to go for first if wishing to improve performance. Even though the tuning is double the cost of the throttle enhancer, it brings a lot more to the table. I've used their tuner device on my 2014 Fusion, and got my 3.0T MKZ tuned because they were the first out to support it, and neither car has had issues with Livernois' tunes, so I consider them a solid choice. The throttle device is for those who want to customize their throttle sensitivity beyond the tune, or is too worried a tune will bring warranty issues so the customer wants an "untrackable modification". Get the tune first if you really want a performance upgrade to the vehicle.

 

Sorry.  I was just talking about the throttle enhancer.  I will always software tune a turbo when I can :)



#20 Zalvern

Zalvern

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 06:51 PM

So I've had this in the 3.0T MKZ for over a month now. Just to share final feedback.

I love this thing, it really makes the throttle much more comfortable to use and reduce foot fatigue. I actually did my Ohio to Michigan trip, and back, with no cruise control use because of how easy it becomes to maintain desired speeds. This is what I consider the biggest perk, along with better paddle shifting flow with the paddle shifters.

Only con I find is aggressive settings and heavy throttling, doesnt work well together in automatic gears. The aggressive performance works better with higher RPM shifting, usually by just controlling. In one way I like this, because it gives me use to paddle shift over letting the computer do it.

This being combined with Livernois tune, I drive it nearly all the time maxed because of how much easier it becomes on my throttle foot. Combined with Auto Hold, foot fatigue is drastically reduced.

Great little device I say, especially for a daily driver. I enjoy the variable throttle control. The LTE brings better launches for me personally than without it, just as I anticipated.

Don't always need to gain more power for a mod to be worth it!






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